My Worthless, Uninformed Take On The Trump Win.

It is Rural America, screaming “STOP IGNORING US & OUR NEEDS!”

And, as everything else has failed, they try to smash the plate glass window, by electing Trump.

I’ve been saying something similar all day. It wasn’t racism and misogyny that won the day. It was condescension and derision by the Democratic party that lost us this election. But we won’t learn from it.

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Yeah, I said roughly the same thing in another thread.

I sympathize, I really do, with the notion that a large percentage of the population is getting left behind economically. It’s just too bad that these people are going to learn the hard way that Donald J. Trump isn’t the guy who’s likely to lead us out of the wilderness.

I’m grieving, sick to my core. I don’t know/ have any answers or ideas. My opinion
Is he isn’t the answer. Time will tell. Hopefully I’m wrong.

If Hillary had spent more time attacking his economic policy she probably would ahve pulled it out. I mean, she blasted Trump again and again for the ridiculous things he would say but every poll had the economy at the top of voters concerns.

What is there to learn? Objectively, the democratic party tends to offer more economic incentives to the working class and the middle class. Democrats support regressive tax cuts, subsides for education, health care subsidies, higher minimum wage, etc. All of which benefit the working class.

Trump offers rhetoric about renegotiating NAFTA and keeping out immigrants. But once he gets in office, he will probably sign laws promoting supply side tax cuts.

So my question is what can the democrats learn from this?

He has a few court cases pending. What can we expect from that?

My take (after the fact, obviously. Until around 10pm last night, I still thought Hillary had a chance): No Democrat was gonna win this race. Any Republican they ran in the general was gonna win this race. After 8 years of a Democrat-- a black man, no less-- in the White House, this election was gonna swing back to the Republicans. Any problems that middle, white America perceived were going to be blamed on the black Democrat in the White House. So it didn’t matter who the Republicans ran, as long as he was white, a “he” and not a Democrat, the Republican would win.

Bernie vs. Trump? President Trump.
Hillary vs. Cruz? President Cruz.
Hillary vs. Rubio? President Rubio.
Biden vs. Trump? President Trump.
Warren vs. Trump? President Trump.
Hillary vs. Kasich? President Kasich.
Springsteen vs. Jeb Bush? President Bush.
Democratic Santa Claus with the dreamiest bedroom eyes imaginable vs. Republican glass of curdled milk? President Milk.

I am now convinced this was going to be a swing election no matter who ran against whom. Unfortunately for America, the Republicans ran the most vile person imaginable, and even worse, he seems to have no ability to actually run anything without shitting his own pants repeatedly.

I think the same situation was true of 2008, but reverse the parties, and for different reasons. 2012 could’ve gone either way. And who the heck knows what 2020 will bring. But if Trump runs the country anything like he ran his campaign, he won’t be re-elected.

To communicate that message effectively. How is your FB news feed? On mine you’d think the klan was massing at the end of the block of some of my family and friends homes. Or women are doomed. Because all they heard from the Democrats is Trump supporters are ignorant racist rubes.

Where was the message of ‘I hear you and feel your pain and here’s my plan’? No we got ‘but the Supreme Court’. The message they gave their own reluctant (of which I was) was if anything worse. Remember that ‘you get nothing’ speech by Willy Wonka. That was the message sent to the progressive wing hence the depressed support.

What are they selling today? Racism and Misogyny. We deserved to lose!

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Imagine working for / with him? Oh my!

I wrote this in another thread but it applies here as well.

What economic policy?

I can accept the OP’s premise. Thing is, our rural friends responded to their economic distress by voting in a party that has made no secret of the fact that they want to repeal the ACA and give massive tax cuts to the wealthy, paid for by basically scuttling Social Security and Medicare.

So, it looks like they fucked themselves, and a whole lot of others in the process. Will their warm fuzzies from sticking it to the “liberals” keep their homes warm? Will they put cat food on their tables in retirement? Of course not.

I have read a lot of comments to the effect that the Democrats were too arrogant and condescending, and that is a big part of how we got to this point. OK then, in light of what I said above , please walk me through a way of framing this as something other than, “these people are a bunch of stupid suckers.”

The question on my mind is, to what extent do Trump voters actually support the guy, or did they just view him as a bomb they could throw at government, and now that’s he’s exploded, they don’t need him anymore? I read somewhere that Trump will be the first president in modern history to take office with a negative approval rating, which suggests to me that a large portion of his supporters will throw him under the nearest convenient bus as soon as a less-revolting candidate comes along with the same populist rhetoric. If that candidates got a D by his name, that could work out well.

If they do think Trump can actually deliver on his promises, they may stick by him long enough for a second term, even as his promises fail to materialize. Trump surprised everyone - including other Republicans - with his success. But a lot of that success was predicated on Trump promising to bring back manufacturing jobs. Which he can’t do. No one can. Those jobs are gone, and they aren’t coming back. When the manufacturing continues to decline, and those angry blue collar workers still don’t have good jobs, will they stick with Trump long enough to re-elect him? Will they stick with the Republican Party in general?

Try: “These people are angry, losing resources and feel powerless; how can I help them?”

The bolded above is a great example of the sneering contempt that won Trump so many supporters. Keep up the good work.

Yeah, they’re suckers. They voted for a president who is going to make their problems worse, not better. But, at the same time, they voted for the only candidate who paid any attention to them.

Perhaps, in 2020, the Democratic candidate could spend a little less time raising dough and a little more time driving around the rust belt in a big ole bus, stopping at every small town, and fine-tuning a message that’s compatible with Democratic values and resonates with them.

Well ok. I certainly would like to help them. But how? Obama had a great plan to help them, but it was obstructed by the representatives that these very people voted in. And now they’ve voted in a President who is unlikely to veto the legislation that is coming that is designed to screw them over, along with me and probably you too, for the benefit of the billionaire class.

I was talking to a Trump supporter at work toady. In as nice a way as I could, I asked him to say a few words about the upside of these election results. The answer was, “Hillary lost. She should be fitted for handcuffs.” I kind of let that slide, and asked him, “But aren’t you worried that Social Security and Medicare are going to be taken away from us now?” His answer was, “Do you really think Social Security is going to be around by the time I am old enough to get it?”

I didn’t think fast enough to come up with an answer for that, and anyway we were at work, we both had things to do besides chat. But later I thought, “Well duh, of course it isn’t going to be there. You just voted in people who intend to repeal it!” :smack:

How do we help them, Snowboarder Bo? How do we fix this? The big money guys with no regard for their or my or your well-being have captured all three branches of the government. So what’s the answer?

First, ask them what they need help with. Listen to what they say. I don’t know what you were referring to with “Obama had a great plan to help them” but are you sure it was help they wanted? And in a form they were prepared to accept?

I have to make my mortgage payment every month, for example, and if you offered to help me make that payment, I’d be excited. Until I found out that the way you wanted to help was by providing me with dried turnips that I could carve into dolls and sell at the flea market, when I’d tell you to get lost. It wouldn’t matter that they were the best dried turnips or that someone in Springhaven was selling $4000 worth of dried turnip dolls a month; I wouldn’t want that kind of help. Are you sure that people wanted the kind of help that Obama was offering?

And to the people who voted for Trump, it doesn’t look like the big money guys have captured all 3 branches of government, it looks like 1 BMG who doesn’t like or give a rat’s ass about the other BMGs just got put in charge of the other BMGs. To them, it looks like a win, at the moment, because to them the usual BMGs have always had all 3 branches of government; now they have 2.

I don’t have many answers to this, but I know that doing the same old thing and expecting a different result is crazy, so I’d rather try and understand and empathize with people than call them idiots and dismiss them; we’re talking about roughly 50% of our citizenry here. Once there’s some progress there, then maybe we can figure out what people in this country want and need and work on that aspect, but understanding and empathy have to come first, IMO.

I know that this flies in the face of what many want to do: run thru the streets accosting strangers with “WHAT HAVE YOU DONE, YOU FUCKING TURDBRAINED GOATFELCHERS??!?!?!?” I confess I understand and empathize with that. :slight_smile:

But, I’m a great believer that wars are really won after the peace is negotiated. Wins and losses on the battlefield exhaust resources (and lives) until the violence isn’t feasible anymore, at least for one side. But hostilities and resentment seem to continue only when one side isn’t able to successfully get the other to adopt enough of their culture. And one way to get people to accept your culture is to accept a little of theirs; that concept is as old as the first tribes (food sharing, inter-marrying, language, etc.).

The war is over; the peace is negotiated. Now get them to adopt your culture.

If Democrats want to win in 2020, I suggest they start with listening to rural voters, understanding their issues and empathizing with them. Once that point is reached, you’ve already got people leaning; any actual help you can give them will only cause them to lean harder your way, into your culture that is now proving itself a net positive in their lives.

I don’t think there’s any great mystery. They want the good old days of US manufacturing. Well-paying jobs with no education needed. Easy money solves whatever other problems they might be having, like health care or housing.

Trump promises that he’ll bring back US manufacturing, but it’s a lie. Not just because of globalization, but automation and just general efficiency improvements. Even if Trump does manage to bring some manufacturing back, it’ll be in the form of robots.

No one wants to hear the real answer: get an education, move someplace that’s not a shithole, and get some other job. Hillary was a bit more polite but that was basically her answer. Oh, and here are some social programs while you’re unemployed. Obviously it didn’t resonate.

What goes for manufacturing goes for coal, too. It doesn’t matter how many regulations Trump repeals–coal is dead, and replaced with natural gas at the least, and wind+solar in the long run. West Virginian miners chose to believe Trump’s lies that he can somehow save their traditional jobs.

It sure looks like the only way the Democrats can capture these votes is by copying the lies. And they’d fail at that since they aren’t as practiced as the other side.

I am curious what lesson will be learned 4 years from now. Will people have seen through Trump’s bullshit? Will they somehow pin things on the Democrats? Guess we’ll find out.