Name for this fallacy?

What is the source of your knowledge about the possibility of God’s existence? In other words, how is it possible for you to know if God is or isn’t possible?

Except that for the christians worshipping other gods is a sin, so you’re doomed no matter what you do.

This thread may be headed for GD, even though IMO the OP was a valid GQ :wink:

The best rebuttal I ever saw of Pascal’s Wager goes something like this: How naive would God have to be to accept your belief, when He knows that you’re only doing it to hedge your bets in case he exists? This is hardly compatible with the notion of an omnipotent being.

I can’t claim originality, but I do like the argument.

That’s what I said, isn’t it?
The catholic god will allow one to doubt, in fact to do so is kinda holy, but one must fundamentally buy the package. You gotta mean it.

<hijack extension>What would it be called if you believe in God but think the nature of God is Unknowable? I would tend to fall into this category.

(A serious answer in the midst of all the glib ones that are sure to follow would be appreciated.)

If you believe in God (or gods), you’re a theist. Beliefs about the nature of God(s) are just subcategories of theism.

Perhaps you had a more abstract meaning for “belief in God?”

I suppose so, Dio. I would say that I believe God exists in the sense that there is some sort of unseen force or intelligence that has created the universe, the world we know, and all of us. However, I’ve really come to believe that no one on the face of the planet has an even remotely accurate idea as to God’s real nature. I don’t think anyone comes anywhere close to knowing how he (for want of a better term) is manifest as an entity, or what he intends, thinks or wants.

In other words, I believe God exists, but apart from that I don’t believe that I, or anyone else, has the vaguest idea of what is really going on in regard to the universe and the phenomenon of life.

You would still qualify as a theist, but depending on whether you think the creator still intervenes in the universe or observes it, you might be a deist. (In Deist belief, there is a creator but he does not intervene in his creation).

It’s actually quite common for people to decide that “I believe in something but I don’t know what to call it.”

If you feel like this something is in any way sentient, you qualify as a theist.

If you feel like it’s not sentient but more like a controlling “force” (akin perhaps to karma) you would be a non-theist, but not necessarily an atheist. This one is hard to really put a word to because it’s not a belief in “God” but it’s not a belief in nothing either.

There is also pantheism which is a belief that the universe itself is God and panentheism which is a belief that God contains the universe but that the universe is not God entire. The universe is part of God, not all of God.

Do any of these strike an intuitive chord?

I would ask your friend if he thinks that simple fear of God’s wrath is a sufficient reason to believe in him. And why should you want to believe in such a God, who condemns someone like you, yet rewards a coward who is just hedging his bets. I would say his basic fallacy is simply an invalid argument. He makes the assumption that one can simply choose to believe in God, while also ignoring that others might judge the risk/reward ratio of belief in his God quite differently. One might counter his argument: if there is a slight possibility that there is no God or Hell, why not accept this fact now, rather than wasting our finite time by needlessly devoting our lives to a fictional and capricious creature?

Actually, several of them do. I suppose I’d say I lean toward panentheism with theism included as somewhat of a description of the way I view God’s relationship with us here on Earth. I think God interacts with us but in ways that are not predictable, and on levels that we are sometimes aware of and on other levels that we either are not aware of at all or only get brief glimpses into, such as the various types of psychic phenomena that most of us experience on rare occasion. I think much more is at work than any of us know or can even imagine.

Panentheism includes a belief that God is omniscient, omnipotent and eternal so that’s probably pretty close to your paradigm.

Thanks, Dio. You are a most interesting person to discuss these kinds of things with. :slight_smile:

No problem, SA. It’s an endlessly interesting subject to me…and I say that as an agnostic. :slight_smile: