Name the Police

As an alternative to “abolish the police” or “defund the police”, I think that the best strategy is to be given a mandate that they have to identify themselves.

The grand majority of harassment of the black community by police, as I understand it, is things like pulling them being pulled over to look inside their car, without cause.

In a struggle, bad things can and do happen. There is no safe and friendly looking physical altercation between cops and citizens that will look good on camera. And, I think, most juries are willing to accept that as true. Body cameras, when reviewed, will mostly show that the cops were correct in saying that the person was trying to avoid being arrested by running away, trying to lie limp, pushing the officer, or otherwise doing something to resist arrest - all of which are legal grounds for the officer to use force, under the completely on-the-record books, which you can quote from - and it’s just bad luck in most cases if someone gets hurt in the ensuing fight.

George Floyd was murdered. I’m not calling that an accidental slip, during a reasonable altercation. I’m saying that these sorts of cases are hard to prosecute and, minus exaggerated criminality on the part of the officer, like in the case with Floyd, you’re just not going to be able to snag very many officers. And, I’d say, you’re just as likely to hurt the ones who got unlucky as the ones who were racist psychopaths.

Just as importantly, these sorts of situations are a tiny minority of all instances where we could pinpoint a racist psychopath among the police community. Arresting one cop for murder and abuse, out of the hundreds of thousands who work in the country, every few years isn’t liable to change the tide by any measurable amount. And, by the point that you do get that one guy, he’s already hurt thousands of people over the years that he’s been allowed to wander around with the full power of an officer of the law, among the populace.

A better remedy is to fire the people who are racist, than to try and prevent chokeholds or make it more easy to successfully prosecute an officer in court. Just as it is a better remedy to treat an illness before it becomes harmful, than it is to discover it late and have to take emergency action to save the person’s life.

When a officer pulls over a congressman, a judge, a mom, or just random person for clearly unfounded reasons - it should be possible and easy to file a complaint against that officer. We have, in the Constitution, the “Confrontation Clause” that says that you get to know who is accusing you of something, what he is accusing you of, and what the basis for that is.*

When an officer pulls my car over, I have no idea who he is other than “a police officer” and I would feel uncomfortable asking him who he is for fear that he would take it as some form of prelude to resistance or trying to talk my way out of the situation and wasting his time. It would go poorly. And that belief results in a situation where I have no reasonable way to file a report to say, “I think that guy was racist”; HQ has no way to compare their officers and see if there’s more reports against one guy than against everyone else; and, when he goes to court for beating on a suspect, there’s no record against him that shows that he was reported for racism twice as often as the next guy over.

All of that could exist if, when an officer pulls my car over, he has to say, “I am officer Jack McMasters out of Precinct 4. Do you know how fast you were driving?”

  • The Confrontation Clause plus the other rights.

I was expecting the thread to be about “Doxing” officers (which is pretty messed up).

Agree better accountability is a good thing. But while I’m sure there are some racist cops in most precincts I believe they are by far the minority. The cops I’ve known personally freely acknowledged they stereotype people but described what sounded more like classism than racism. One in particular explained he had intended to treat everyone fairly at the beginning but soon found almost all crimes were committed by people who looked like criminals. If you drive an old beat up car, or look like a drug addict, or dress like a gang member your are going to be stereotyped by police as a potential criminal.

This is a bad thing which hurts people and needs to be fixed but it isn’t racism. Reforming the police with better training, oversight, and accountability will eventually solve the problem. Trying to find and fire all the racist cops will not.

Police act with impunity, even when committing serious crimes on camera. Requiring them to give their names is unlikely to be more effective.

I do not concur that someone getting beaten for “lying limp” constitutes a fight, nor that any resulting injuries would be accidental.

No. There was more than adequate identification of Chauvin, people managed to make over a dozen complaints of brutality against him without any difficulty in identifying him.

So forget identifying. Start punishing.

Sting, Stewart Copeland, and Andy Summers.

What?

You’ll have to explain your thinking to me.

“25 people saw him commit a crime and he was prosecuted. Ergo, all criminal actors commit their crimes in front of crowds and all of them will be similarly prosecuted.”

The bit after “ergo” strikes me as suspicious.

Maybe you have not been paying attention? You know, all the stories of well-dressed, ordinary people doing ordinary things being followed, harassed, arrested, beaten, shot, murdered, by police because they happen to be black?

You’re aware that “it’s a few bad apples” and “we can fix this with better training” are the standard white responses to police brutality toward black people and have been for decades without any improvements, quite the reverse even?

You know that, right?

I saw someone, somewhere suggest that police officers should have to wear big numbers on their uniforms, like athletes.

This seems to be a non sequitur.

We’re talking about someone like Chauvin committing crimes against people. Those people notice, and make complaints. On one occasion he committed his crime on camera and in front of a crowd, and was prosecuted. On a dozen or more previous occasions he was reported, but not prosecuted. The difference isn’t in whether he could be identified.

A more robust identification policy may be a valid part of police reform, but by itself it isn’t reform.

The core problem with policing and race isn’t a failure to identify the officers, it’s a failure of training, job standards, response to complaints. It’s a failure to define what it means to be a police officer, what it means to do the job right, and how you respond when someone does the job wrong.

Only two complaints against Chauvin were upheld, neither was for brutality, and we dont know what the others complaints were for.

Only two of the 18 complaints were “closed with discipline,” according to a MPD internal affairs public summary. In both cases, Chauvin received a letter of reprimand.

“According to Communities Against Police Brutality, a Minnesota nonprofit that created a database of complaints against officers in the state, Chauvin received oral reprimands for using a “demeaning tone,” “derogatory language” and other language that merited discipline.”

Every cop I’ve interacted with had a nametag on his uniform.

I haven’t heard of identification being a problem at all. Police officers abuse their power openly and simply deny the facts if called on it.

[quote=“Sage_Rat, post:1, topic:855918, full:true”]
All of that could exist if, when an officer pulls my car over, he has to say, “I am officer Jack McMasters out of Precinct 4. Do you know how fast you were driving?”[/quote]

This is part of Verbal Judo. Many cops have been using it for over 30+ years

Not only that, I’m required to show my department photo ID when requested, issue a card that has my name, rank, and ID number on it, and identify the name of my immediate supervisor and the name of our Chief.

a) That ^
b) The second component, in the OP, was that it should be easy to file a complaint. That I am aware, if you go into a neighborhood that has a large minority population, there aren’t posters on the building corners telling you how to download the complaints app for the local police department.

The department should be doing everything that it can to encourage officer-specific feedback and to use that data to ferret out the problem children.

“Naming the cops” is a catchy headline, not the full recommendation. The full recommendation was, as said, to try and identify cops who behave inappropriately, in general, before they can cause larger issues. Reacting after-the-fact is the wrong direction to go and punishing everyone for the actions of a few is also the wrong methodology.