name this ancient weapon

My google-fu is weak on this.

I assume that such a weapon existed historically. I know I have seen it depicted in movies, I guess it could just be an invention of film makers, but it seems a likely weapon to have existed.

It is like a small catapult, except instead of throwing a projectile with an arm, the weight or tension swung a plate that slapped the rear ends of a bunch or spears or javelins mounted in a block. The result was a group of several spears flying together toward a targeted area.

Real, fictitious? Name?

Thanks

-rainy

An small trebuchetmaybe ? Perhaps a Scorpion or ballista ? FWIW, catapults were sometimes loaded with bundles of arrows instead of rocks - the Ancient equivalent of canister shot.

Polybolos, maybe.

A form of ballista was my first thought since arrows/javelins/spears were the projectile. But if it is, I have been able to find no image of it that looked like what I remember seeing.

The Polybolos isn’t it either.

It looked less complex in construction than even most ballista photos I’ve found. Instead of a string or rope launching the projectile, just a plate swung around and slapped them launching them all at once. And the spears were loaded into a ‘block’ of sorts, maybe just a plank with holes to spread them out - they were not in just a bundle.

I’m really beginning to think maybe it was just the invention of a prop master somewhere.

I think I can visualize what you’re describing, and I’m thinking Hollywood magic. I can imagine a handful of reasons that sort of setup wouldn’t work well in practice. Definitely willing to be wrong, though – it sounds cool. :slight_smile:

Didn’t Mythbusters rebuild an Asian weapon designed to shoot a big barrage of arrows or spears?

Does this work? I’d think a bunch of arrows that were just sort of hurled at the enemy would be unlikely to proceed forward pointy end first (or with enough force to actually penetrate very far).

As long as they are fletched and have enough time in flight, they’d end up with the business end in the right direction. As to their penetration, I have no idea.

OP: I can visually see the weapon you are describing, but I have never known its name.

ETA: I think there was one in Willow. I know I’ve seen it in some fantasy movie.

The Hwacha, but that’s a gunpowder powered weapon:

Basically, a big rack of rocket propelled arrows with explosive tips all fired together. They concluded that it could work rather well.

Oooh I think I know what you mean. Like the hedgehog thing in Joan of Arc:The Messenger ? Load arrows/javelins individually into a sort of “beehive”, then fire them all at once at close range ?

If so, I’m pretty sure that’s made up, although something much like it was done later using guns: the ribauldequin, or ribault, or organ gun. The Italians were particularly fond of them and built some truly ridiculous ones. The Koreans also had an earlier version that fired arrows using rockets, called a Hwacha (bless you). Neither weapon was particularly reliable or precise, but the morale effect must have been substantial.

However as far as I’m aware, no such devices were built that relied solely on torsion/counterweights.

Sounds like you are describing a springal.
Imgur

I just want to say I’ve seen this old weapon in a woodcut, so it might be a real weapon and not a Hollywood creation. Don’t know what the hell it’s called, however.

Yes, very much like a Hwacha, but essentially with like a small onager providing the kick. Seems so ‘logical’ its hard to believe it didn’t exist. I would think its construction would be easier than a ballista.

@ Parsimony - I saw a drawing for the springal, and like the commenter on flickr, I assumed those had never made it from the drawing board.

@Kobal2 - haven’t seen JOA, so that’s not where I saw it. I have seen Willow, so maybe that’s the image I’m thinking of, though it seems I’ve seen this device more than once.

ETA - Ah-ha, Una has seem one not on film. There may be hope.

The names are just related to the means of propulsion. The loads of any of them could vary from solid stones, baskets full of rubble, stone or metal shot (though metal was consistently expensive, so would be unlikely to be used) to loose bundles of arrows, javelins or other missiles, and incendiary loads. You can use ballistae to throw stones or jars as easily as big-assed “arrows” that the are often depicted using exclusively.

The one you describe sounds like a mangonel or its sub-class, onager.

Check the Wikipedia page on catapults for a list of different machines and loads.

rainy,

I believe that what you are describing is a springal. Basically a plank is bent backward and when release it slaps the but of one or more projectiles launching them in a mannner similar to a crossbow.

Just a word for the arbalest, which is more of a giant crossbow but might have been adapted by someone to fire a multiple array of spears.

(This one drove me crazy for years, because Harry Harrison called it an ‘arbolast’ without further identification, and even most fuzzy searches won’t make the connection. “Arbolast” brings up only references to his book.)

IANA expert, but fitting a number of arrows in holes in a board and then whacking them, does not seem to be a good method of transferring the energy. I also think that, unless the arrows were in long tubes, the directional control would be very poor.

Bows, crossbows and arbalests transfer the energy in a smoothly progressive way. The weapon described would have to transfer it instantaneously.

My thought too.

Based on my experience with baseball bats and golf clubs, a weapon that uses a “whack” to send a projectile usually relies on the elasticity of the projectile (or the bat) to transfer maximum momentum and speed to the projectile. A rock hit with a bat will not travel anywhere are far as a leather ball. Without a “bounce”, the projectile will only go as fast as the striking mechanism; the striking mechanism would rely on high momentum to transfer a lot of energy/speed. How would you swing a large plate with sufficient momentum (Presumably in only half a full turn)? If you had the mechanism to do that, it would likely be more efficient as a catapult.

Like this reconstruction, maybe? Don’t think it’s been linked to yet. It’s called a scorpion, as Kobal2 suggested.

Could easily be wrong, but wasn’t there a multiple arrow launcher used in the battle at the beginning of Gladiator? Not that that would definitely prove anything!

Whatever the hell that thing is, it doesn’t look much like a scorpion.

Reading your link, you’re quite right.

I was going by the term used in their description. And it is only a woodcut, albeit 400+ years old, so who knows what it was based on.