She didn’t say the names were weird because the people were Chinese. She said that some Oriental people chose weird names for their children.Perhaps “uncommon” would have been a better choice than weird, and it’s certainly not limited to Asian immigrants,but she wasn’t entirely wrong either.
Using the example of being tranported to a foreign country and having to pick a name, I would probably look at the names of people I had met or that I had heard on the news and pick one I liked- possibly not realizing that I hadn’t met or heard of anyone under 60 with the name. Or as my husband’s immigrant parents did,name the baby after my friend Danny - not realizing his name was actually Daniel.(which does actually cause some hassles)
I didn’t say that, and IMHO it is a cheap shot to liken one minority groups struggle with another. Oriental may be somewhat analogous to ‘negro’, but given all the different connotations and baggage, I personally believe that this is far to simplistic an approach to explain why a word may be politically incorrect, insensitive, outdated, or impolite.
The real reason I opened am hitting this thread is that in my experience in the US, that a lot of Chinese immigrants chose very conservative Victorian type names. Maybe it sounds a little odd to some people to have an obviously Asian person with a conservative, classical, Victorian English first name. Heck I did the same to my daughter with “Jacqueline.” Well, maybe that is more French than Victorian, but it is a classic name.
When my family moved to Canada from Eritrea (Africa) my mother was pregnant with my brother, and had trouble finding a name for him. My father told my mom that since their were going to live in Canada they should name him a Canadian name. However, my mother wanted a proper Eritrean name for their new boy. They settled on the name Johnny and not the Eritrean equilent (Yohannes).
They thought that it would be easier for him, and it was (besides the fact of having a extreamly long last name) but to this day my mother regrets not naming him Yohannes. And from time to time we will all joke about the names she could have picked (tarik, filmon, frey, etc, etc) instead of John.
As to the “Asian” vs “Oriental” question: When I was growing up, people from “the Orient” (that is the East) were referred to as Oriental, whether they came from China or India, or anywhere else in that part of the world. It never occurred to me that “Oriental” might be insulting to anyone.
Then in college I became very close friends with a young woman, born in the US, whose parents were born in China. She has a Chinese name, but uses “Betty” and her parents’ family name, just to avoid confusion. She told me that she preferred “Asian” to “Oriental” without going into the reasons, and that was good enough for me.
It occurs to me that, during the time of British colonialism, their use of “Oriental” may be part of the reason some Asians resent the term. They often called natives of India or China, etc., “Worthy Oriental Gentlemen” (WOGs for short) which may sound civil, but is pejorative.
As for “strange” sounding foreign names, the arrogance of some Americans who just “give” American sounding nicknames to immigrants is galling. For example, I used to work in a company that employed people from all over the world. But an Iranaian whose first name was Arashmidos had to settle for being called “Ash” and an Ethiopian named Tadesse was saddled with “Tad.” In the former case, after asking him what he preferred, I continued with Ash. But Tadesse said that, even though he wasn’t offended by “Tad,” he really preferred his own name. I made sure I was pronouncing it correctly and always called him by his correct name.
I wouldn’t care to have some stranger in another country change mine just because it suited him better.
[Irrational Hijack]
As a guy named Mackenzie, I just want to say that giving that name to girls really gets on my tits. The prefix “Mac-” means “Son of.” You can’t name a girl “Son of” something! Dammit!
I’m also bitter that this name is becoming popular now, and not fifteen years ago. Where were all these other Mackenzies when I was trying to find one of those little bike liscense plates with my name on it, huh?
[/Irrational Hijack]
This seems to me to be a pretty universal trait, not just an American one. Certainly, my name has been modified while living in Taiwan, Hong Kong, China and Japan. I get Italians calling me by the Italian version. Depends on the intent and frankly how pronounceable it is in another country.
My cousin’s Grandpa Mackenzie died about 5 years ago. My cousin has the middle name Mackenzie in honor of him. It’s not a “new” name.
Flamsterette_X, you don’t need to apologise to me. I wasn’t offended. I pointed out that your sentence was poorly phrased because I am aware that many people dislike the term “Oriental”, and when teemed with the subject matter, it come across as mildly condesending. However, the very fact that you are of “Oriental” descent puts a totally different spin on your use of the word.
I agree with China Boy that many Asian people chose classic and even old fashioned English names for their children. There is nothing at all wrong with that. However, when you mentally conjure up an image of a man named, say, Alfred, you would probably picture an elderly man, and probably a white or black man at that. To find that Alfred is actually a young Asian man can be mildly confusing, and so it’s no surprise that you, Flamsterette and others (like me) can be found commenting on what we see as an unexpected choice of names by Asian people living in English speaking countries. It works the other way around too - if you’re looking at a young Asian man, “Alfred” probably isn’t high on your mental tally of what his name is likely to be.
I must add that in real life, I know very few Asian people. The ones I have known are named James, Michael (his sister was Jenny) and Jeremy. I do read the birth notices in the paper regularly, and that’s what gives me the impression that many Asian people chose old fashioned English names for their children, although I must add that many chose names that are currently popular too.
I must say, when someone has a name that (for me) has a distinct ethnic flair, then I expect that the person has close/recent ties to that ethnicity or nation. Just MHO. My husband has a very Germanic last name, and I like a lot of German boy’s names. He certainly has as much teutonic blood as one can possibly have. But I felt if we gave him a name like Rolf, we’d be, I dunno, comitting false advertising. As if we speak German in the house after 8 p.m every night and I cook a kickass bratwurst. Which isn’t true.
The kids I know who have arabic names or spanish names or Hindi names have them because they’ve got a parent (or two) who speaks the language and they really celebrate that culture. I’d feel like a poseur giving my own kids such names because of what our family is like.
I think that Scots and Irish names are the most accepted “cross over” names in the U.S. today. You can name your kid Siobhan or Liam and people don’t expect you to speak Gaelic or play bagpipes.
My first name is Spanish and my last name is “Anglo” sounding (actually Dutch). I think a lot of Americans find the combination odd (actually in places like Chile or Argentina it isn’t). Even the president of Mexico has such a name. I always say its no more wierd than a “Kevin Hernandez” or “Jason Kowalski”.
I live in a border town, and when there are kids who are half Anglo and half Hispanic, many will get a first name that is Spanish so that even though they have a last name that is not very Hispanic, their first name will identify them as being of Mexican origin. So it isnt strange to meet an Enrique Williams or a Ricardo Moore here. Most kids with Spanish names though seem to Americanize them, even if its a bit awkward (Fernie for Fernando).
I think you should name your child with a name that you like, whether it is because you like the way it sounds or because it has personal meaning for you. And let everybody else go shove their Emmas and Daves up their arse.
One of my great friends is of Thai descent and is called Thenuha (prounced Thenn-e-ka). I love that name. If I ever have a baby girl I will give full consideration to using it, regardless of my own personal ancestry.
Years ago, I had dealings with a Chinese guy who had been sent by his parents to a private, church-oriented school. The school administrator was a German, who had difficulty pronouncing Chinese names. This administrator arbitrarily assigned German first names to all the kids in the school, while “allowing” them to keep their original last names. Apparently all the parents of these kids accepted the name change–the guy I knew used to entertain us by reciting the names of some of his classmates.