I was wondering about naming children after one’s self and how exactly this works. Does the full name have to be the same or can it just be the first and last names? For example John Adam Smith named his son John George Smith. Is the kid jr. (II) or is it considered totally different?
The idea of naming a child after yourself seems to be pretty uncommon anymore. I’ve only known two people who were a jr. and amazingly enough a VII, but when I knew them I didn’t think to ask.
Jr. is used only if the name is exactly the same. Look at George H. W. Bush and George W. Bush.
From Miss Manners Guide to Rearing Perfect Children :
All the given names have to be the same as the father if the person is to have a Jr. or III with it.
My cousin is (legally) a III, since his father was (legally) a Jr., that is, they had those added to their given names. His father was George Louis Junior Smith (somewhat approximation of name), and he is George Louis III (third) Smith.
His brother, which only differs by one more given name (George Louis Raymond Smith), does not have a IV.
Oh yea, both of them vowed never to name their kids after them. Since all their kids (with their respective wives) have been female, they didn’t even have to think about it.
Some people today have been naming a child who should have been a Jr, “II.” I guess they think it sounds “cooler.”
A “II” is a RELATIVE of the un-numbered “I.”
F’r instance: Bobby Kennedy named one of his sons after his brother who was killed in WW2. That kid was a “II.”
Another problem crops up with a kid named after Dad. When the kid is small, he’s usually called a diminutive of Dad’s name. However, it’s rough when the kid grows up, and the family still calls him “Markie.”
~VOW
Some people today have been naming a child who should have been a Jr, “II.” I guess they think it sounds “cooler.”
A “II” is a RELATIVE of the un-numbered “I.”
F’r instance: Bobby Kennedy named one of his sons after his brother who was killed in WW2. That kid was a “II.”
Another problem crops up with a kid named after Dad. When the kid is small, he’s usually called a diminutive of Dad’s name. However, it’s rough when the kid grows up, and the family still calls him “Markie.”
~VOW
The actor Morgan Freeman was to my recollection originally billed as a Junior. Sometime in the last ten years, that was dropped. I can’t find any references to why it was dropped, or why it was used in the first place. His father’s name was Grafton Curtis Freeman. What’s the deal with that?
I don’t know about Morgan Freeman, but I do know Ed Begley, Jr. dropped the Jr. several years after his father died. In his case, the Screen Actors Guild will not allow two working actors to use the same screen name, so the two Begleys billed themselves as Sr. and Jr.
I myself happen to be the third generation with the same first and last name, but we all have different middle names. None of us has ever been styled as a Jr. (However, each of us has used our middle initials as part of our signatures a lot more than most people.) By contrast, my buddy Frank shares the same first and middle names with his father and grandfather, and actually has Frank III on some of his professional licenses, to avoid confusion.
I’m a II, since I’m named after my grandfather.
He’s since passed on, but I’m keeping the II. I added it in the first place to honor him.
So why is this only done with boy children? Patriarchial society that we live in? Moot since most women change their names at marriage?
Though in truth I only know of one person named precisely the same as her mother.
[slight hijack] I was named after my father, but never used my full name (went by a nick) except on school records and such. I would not let anyone call me Junior. When I was 18, I change my name. Reason: my father left us when I was about a year old, and had little to do with us growing up. I had little use for the name of a man I hardly knew & a name I didn’t care for anyways. I decided when I was a kid, that I would never name my kid after me. Of course I don’t have kids & never will, so thats easy. [/slight hijack]
<<So why is this only done with boy children? Patriarchial society that we live in? Moot since most women change their names at marriage? >>
First Lady Abigail Adams’ daughter’s name was also Abigail.
I talk to probably 30-40 parents a night as part of my job, and I’ve talked to two women whose daughters had the same first name they did. Doesn’t seem that uncommon. I’d bet on a few more Juniors and II’s, but not by much…I think Jr. for men is going out of style.
Corr
I think the tradition of women taking their husbands’ last names sort of throws a monkey wrench into finding women with “Jr” or “III.”
Technically, a daughter named after her mother wouldn’t be a “Jr” because mom’s name changed when she married the father.
And even if the daughter WERE considered a “Jr” wouldn’t she lose the “Jr” after SHE married?
My PERSONAL favorite story about the naming conventions is George Foreman. He’s got four sons: George Foreman II, George Foreman III, George Foreman IV, and George Foreman V.
~VOW
Miss Manners doesn’t know what she’s talking about. Of all the numbered individuals I know, they use the same number regardless of who’s alive. I even know a V.
My father has the same name as my deceased grandfather. When dad was born, he was Jr., and still uses Jr. today (though there is no III).
I have read a lot of books on Lucille Ball and when they give interviews with people who knew her they quote them as saying “Lucie Jr.” (refering to Arnaz)
So this begs another question what about spelling is Mark Smith (father) and Marc Smith (son) is Marc a junior?
Not if she (a) doesn’t marry or (b) keeps her birth name.
Corr {(b) but not Jr.}