It seems that “cultural appropriation” has become one of the taboos of the offenderati class. I suspect **Chimera **interpreted that you were using it in that sense rather than the neutral sense.
The complete sentence you wrote was “Like their land the Native American foods have been appropriated.” That sentence’s tone seems to support the offended/violated interpretation, at least to me.
It now appears you didn’t mean that. OK.
You make a good point there. On review I have to concede that the appropriation of land and cuisine were a bit different. I guess I can’t blame him for interpreting my comment the way he did. It wasn’t my intention. Chimera, I should have been clearer.
Cite for any Pre-Columbian mashed potato dishes?
You’re aware that polenta existed as a dish more than a millennium before it was made with maize, right?
I don’t need a cite for mashed potatoes. You need a cite that pre-Columbian peoples never mashed up a cooked potato.
As for polenta you are correct, I did not specify polenta made from corn.
No, mate, “You have no proof they didn’t, therefore they did” is a rubbish argument. You’re the one saying mashed potatoes are a native American dish, you’re the one that has to provide the proof.
And the cite isn’t for some Inca once crushing a boiled potato, it’s for the existence of mashed potato as an actual, clearly-defined dish.
Also, mashed potato, the dish, is a little more than just boiled potatoes smashed up.
Like you I would imagine fry bread is a “post-pacification” invention after Native Americans were herded onto reservations and given a ration of flour since their hunting-and-gathering was no longer feasible.
Up in “Indian Country” – the Hopi and Navajo reservations – there are cafes that offer traditional fare along with the usual stuff. I’m thinking specifically of the one attached to the Hopi Cultural Center in Second Mesa. Mutton and hominy stew is one I’ve tried.
Do you have evidence of any recipe for an Incan dish? Or proof that anything as a clearly defined dish from that time?
And I made mashed potatoes the other night from nothing but boiled potatoes, and I’ve done it with baked potatoes also, and they were delicious.
http://mayaincaaztec.com/potatostore.html
I have trouble copying with my wiiu but at the above page it mentions the Inca making chuño which is basically instant mashed potatos.
No, I don’t. But then, I’m not the one making the positive assertions.
No, but I’m not the one saying a particular dish definitely existed.
Mashed potatoes without at least one one of cream, butter or milk is just wrong.
Chuño is *not *“mashed potatoes”.
By that logic no dishes existed.
It is an extraordinary claim that no Incan ever made and ate mashed potatoes. You are using a ridiculous concept of what a dish is to deny it.
You must not be a very good cook or don’t know any.
I’m reminded here of the Peanuts strip where everyone starts arguing over the morality of Charlie Brown pitching a bean-ball right in the middle of a baseball game:
CHARLIE BROWN: We never win any ball games, but we have some interesting discussions!
Yeah, that’s the Dope for you.
I suppose an Incan cook may have smashed up some boiled potatoes with dairy products or a flavored liquid…to feed an invalid, or a young warrior whose teeth had been knocked out in battle.
When my daughter was very young and subject to dairy allergies, I made mashed potatoes with onions and celery carmelized in olive oil, plus a little strong chicken stock. Those were quite good.
Very unlikely, that is about the dairy products. The natives had no milk before Europeans came along and virtually all of them were lactose intolerant. Native American cuisine will not have any dairy at all.
I don’t need a recipe to know if they ate something. I can read Spanish accounts for that.
Good thing that’s *not *the claim I’m making.
[QUOTE=me]
And the cite isn’t for some Inca once crushing a boiled potato, it’s for the existence of mashed potato as an actual, clearly-defined dish.
[/QUOTE]
A “dish”, the way I’m using it, would be some food that is regularly prepared as part of a cuisine, and has a name, even if that name is a bare descriptive.
:rolleyes: I’m a good enough cook to know how to make proper mashed potatoes, just like Parmentier would have liked them.
There is The Sioux Chef who is trying to start a Native American restaurant in Minneapolis.
Sunflowers, like maize and pumpkins(and other related winter squashes), existed only because they were selectively bred by Precolumbians. Specifically for their energy-rich seeds.
Of course maize was prepared as many dishes, like hominy(inspiring grits). Popcorn, too.
Then there’s the cocoa of South America.
Also: turkey.
Anybody with the cool to name himself and his restaurant that deserves a lot of success.
Oh, and apparently chihuahuas were bred and sold as food.
Which would explain why anyone would keep around such nasty spiteful little monsters.
TheRoundhouse Cafe in Montreal offers food inspired by traditional aboriginal cuisine. It’s also an outreach program for local and displaced natives living in downtown Montreal. Its vocation hints at some of the reasons we don’t have many aboriginal cuisine restaurants: Many native people around here are living in poverty and don’t have the money to start a restaurant, and rampant discrimination and unfair laws can make it difficult for them to raise the cash. Various levels of the government have shown some willingness to change, but it’s still a tough fight.