That by God’s own standard, which many Christians claim is written on our hearts so it’s God’s standard and not just ours, God is not “good”.
In my United Methodist Church, teaching is almost entirely around the New Testament. The Old Testament is mostly taught as context for the actions and words of the Christ. The Bible itself is a collection of how previous people interacted with God, and we learn how different people did so differently.
Note that for the UMC, the Bible is only one part of the foundations of faith. (See the Wesleyan Quadrilateral.) For us, Jesus is the Word of God, and God is Love. So answers about what does a verse mean are typically considered with respect to how it helps us better love our neighbors.
Well, who knows- here is how that chapter starts- “To the angel[a] of the church in Ephesus write:
These are the words of him who holds the seven stars in his right hand and walks among the seven golden lampstands. Revelations wasnt written by any of the Apostles, and it isnt a Gospel.
Right. Apparently he got hold of some great “stuff”.
It was excluded for the Gospels for several reasons.
John of the Gospels was one of the 12 Apostles. The others at least met one of the Apostles. The other three seem to have been guided by the Q document, where someone wrote down many saying of jesus while he was still alive.
Revelations seems to have been written by someone under some odd hallucinatory trip. And is much later than the three Q gospels.
Okay, The 4 Gospels- John was written while the Apostle John was alive- he lived to like 90, and war put to pen by John’s apostles- likely dicated in part by him. So, John not only met Jesus, but traveled with him. And how much John provided to his Gospel is unknown, but he lived to about 100 AD or so.
Mark- AD 70 or so. Maybe written by Mark the Evangelist.
Matthew- Likely written by a unknown Jewish convert, based upon Mark and Q, maybe around AD 70?
Luke- unknown date- 58- 100AD. Maybe Luke the Evangelist.
Saint Peter lived to about AD 68 or so. James, the Brother of Jesus died in AD 62, and his death is well documented.
Earliest NT book is likely Epistle to the Galatians, written by St Paul 48 AD.
Most of the NT books were written long before those who knew Jesus were dead-
We are sure John the Apostle lived to at least AD90. James, the Brother of Jesus died in AD 62, this is documented.
Paul, who, AFAWK, never knew Jesus in the way “knew” is commonly used.
How about the way it’s used in the Bible? ![]()
Yes, but if his book was written in AD 48, and John the Apostle lived to at least AD90. James, the Brother of Jesus died in AD 62, this is documented. So, sure, Paul never met Jesus, but he did MEET Peter and James. Saint Peter lived to about AD 68 or so. So Paul certainly met lots of people who met and traveled with Jesus.
Paul saw Jesus in a vision.
I am not seeing much influence from Peter and James in Paul’s depiction of his vision of Jesus.
“I knew Jesus. I spread the gospel with Jesus. You sir, are no Jesus Christ.”
"Correct sir! I fully understand Christianity… unlike Jesus!’
~ Paul
Paul had his vision before he knew them. But again- while i believe people have visions- it is a part of the Native American religions- that doesnt mean I believe necessarily what Paul said.
Cite?
I doubt many Bible scholars outside the evangelical world would agree, and probably some inside it don’t. Just because someone’s name was attached to a book of the Bible doesn’t mean that person wrote it. And I say that as a Christian, albeit a more liberal one.
But he doesn’t. It’s always been my understanding that Abraham was stopped. The entire concept is that God does not want human sacrifice, but a sacrifice of our will.
That is correct. Matthew almost certainly didnt write that Gospel. Mark m& could have written those Gospel, but there are arguments, so by no means is that a fact
The Gospel of John was put to pen by John the Apostles followers. How much input John gave is debated. However, the main argument of why John could not have written “there are multiple reasons for this conclusion, including, for example, the fact that the gospel is written in good Greek and displays sophisticated theology, and is therefore unlikely to have been the work of a simple fisherman” is totally bogus for at least two reasons-Yes, John was maybe semi-literate, sure when Jesus died. But he was a fairly young man, and thinking John could not have learned to write with some skill in 4-5 decades is ridiculous . Next- almost no one put their pen to parchment themselves- they had a secretary to do so. They just dictated it. Even Julius Caesar one of the most literate men of his time used a secretary when writing Commentarii de Bello Gallico.
So if you want to think Johns followers wrote it without his input- fine.
Traditionally, it is believed he was martyred either in AD 62 by being stoned to death on the order of High Priest Ananus ben Ananus, or in AD 69 by being thrown off the pinnacle of the Temple by scribes and Pharisees and then clubbed to death.
According to a passage found in Josephus’ Antiquities of the Jews (20.9.1), “the brother of Jesus, who was called Christ, whose name was James” met his death after the death of the procurator Porcius Festus but before Lucceius Albinus had assumed office – which has been dated to 62.
Lucceius Albinus’ assumption of office has been dated to 62, NOT JAMES’ DEATH.
Neither of your cites disprove the AD 62 date. Say Lucceius Albinus assumed office in later AD62, then it works. Anway Josephus is a solid cite, even if the dating cant always be calculated exactly.
and if you look further in wiki- The context of the passage is the period following the death of Porcius Festus, and the journey to Alexandria by Lucceius Albinus, the new Roman Procurator of Judea, who held that position from 62 CE to 64 CE. [32] Because Albinus’ journey to Alexandria had to have concluded no later than the summer of 62 CE, the date of James’ death can be assigned with some certainty to around that year.[32][36][31] The 2nd century chronicler Hegesippus also left an account of the death of James, and while the details he provides diverge from those of Josephus, the two accounts share similar elements.[37][38][36]
“no later than the summer of 62 CE, the date of James’ death can be assigned with some certainty to around that year.”
No, that wasn’t the point. Your cite doesn’t say “this is documented” and Josephus is a solid cite for what other people were telling Josephus not for what Josephus knew first-hand.
This nitpick is ridiculous. It is documented, by two sources. I didnt claim “first hand sources”. There really arent many in the ancient past. There are even modern history book accepted as great and dependable works, there are not first hand- in fact almost no history books are first hand.
The Twelve Caesars: Suetonius was not writing first hand. However, it is accepted as a reliable source. History of Rome by Livy was not first hand. I could go on.
Josephus’ history is highly interpolated, particularly by one Christian hand who made Josephus appear to be much more concerned with Jesus, the apostles, and the early church, than he was (we know a lot about him).
There are three major writers of the book of John-- I have this from several books written about the gospels, including one I had as a college textbook. IIRC, the original John was written about 90CE, and the final version about 120CE, and we know this because even though there are no extant documents from these dates, there are writings which quoted John, some of which date to close to 90CE, and others which were written after 120CE. Also, of course, because errors of grammar and quirks of language signify that one author or another is “speaking.”
One book was. But by no means all. Actually those two mentions of Jesus is maybe why Josephus’ history survived.
Here is some interesting info-
Yael: Yes. So, while historians agree that most of what we get from Josephus is true, now using modern archeology and other sources that have been found since then, we really are taking every story about Josephus from the mouth of Josephus. So, just something to keep in mind as I continue to tell you what an amazing military strategist he was.
Schwab: Well, if you are the one whose book survived, then you’re probably going to be painted in a pretty good light.
Yael: That is a very good point. And actually, a lot of people say that the reason why Josephus’s writings survived was because they were the most useful and they had the most utility. So, presumably, other people who were there found them useful and then passed them along to subsequent generations.
But to be honest- everything written by the ancients-Josephus, the Gospels,Suetonius, Caesar, etc- all has to be taken with a grain of salt. But in many cases- it is really all we have.