Naval missile defense (as seen in "Sum of All Fears")--real?

Factual Questions
1

I saw “The Sum of All Fears” a few weeks ago, and was wondering about one scene in particular:

**** mild SPOILERS, if you haven’t seen the movie yet, still care, and are still foolish enough to have opened this thread *******

When the Russian MiGs fire their missiles at the U.S. Naval warship, the Navy craft opens fire with a dazzling gun barrage–which is somewhat successful at destroying the missiles before they reach the ship (one makes it through).

Is this real? What is this anti-missile weapon called? I just assumed that, absent some sort of ECM jamming, warships were screwed when missiles were fired at them.

2

Yeah, it’s real. It’s called the Phalanx.

3

Yup, it’s real. The system is called AEGIS.

4

Wow, what a double post.

5

Doh. Me Bizzaro Ranchoth. Me no like correct answers. :stuck_out_tongue: :smack:

6

[slight hijack]

Actually, those are Russian Tu-22 Backfire Bombers.

http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/russia/bomber/tu-22m.htm

Pictures are at the bottom.

[/slight hijack]

7

Well, when missles are fired at a ship, the ship can respond first with its own anti-air missles (Standard, Sea-Sparrow) and then with the Phalanx computer controlled gun, with shoots about 50 20mm rounds every second.

8

In the fleet, the Phalanx Close-In Weapons System (CIWS), is referred to by its acronym, or “sea-whiz.”

9

Facinating things that I am proud to be designing (the ships, that is).

When we were planning to delete CWIS from our design on DDGs, we started calling it CWAS.

10

CIWS gun systems are common on most modern warships now. The standard US Navy model is the [Phalanx]. The Royal Navy uses Phalanx and a larger-calibre Dutch design called [Goalkeeper]. The Russian navy uses a slightly different set-up, known as the [AK-630] (if I remember rightly).

The Phalanx and Goalkeeper are entirely self-contained units, where the basic elements are an electrically-rotated multi-barrel (Gatling) gun providing an enormously high rate of fire, directed by an onboard radar that tracks incoming missiles. The Russian systems lacks the built-in radar, using the ship’s radar systems instead.

None of them are foolproof systems, by the way.

11

You were in a very polite fleet. We called it “R2-D2 with a hardon”.

Newer models fire 4500 rounds per minute, or 75 per second. Lotsa noise.

12

Oh yeah–that too. :smiley: Not the best term for a briefing, though.

Like an extremely loud “zipper” or buzz noise.

13

Yeah but does the Phalanx REALLY work?

IIRC the USS Stark was successfully hit by an Iraqi missle because the Phalanx system was shut off. I think they had said the radar on the Phalanx screwed-up the other ship systems (or radar) so it was essentially useless when it was actually needed.

14

I’ve never heard that CIWS interfered with other ship systems. I have, however, heard that an armed CIWS is apt to engage “friendlies,” including your own helos or small boats.

From this link:

It’s not the type of system you want to have armed routinely. It’s my understanding that the system is only armed when a ship is under attack. I believe it can be placed in “standby,” though, and quickly armed if necessary. (As opposed to when a ship is in-port, when it is completely shut down.)

The USS Stark was hit, I believe, because they had no reason to believe they were under attack.

Disclaimer: IANASWO (SWO = Surface Warfare Officer). I was on submarines.

15

The successful missile strike on the USS Stark in May 1987 was somewhat of a “rules-of-engagement” issue as well. Following this attack, warships in the Persian Gulf were placed in a higher alert status.

Unfortunately, this set the stage for the USS Vincennes, thinking it was under attack, to tragically shoot down an Iranian Airbus and kill 290 people in July 1988.

16

Ranchoth is wrong, the system shown in the movie wasn’t AEGIS. AEGIS is installed on certain classes of cruisers and destroyers(see his cite for details), and the ship in the movie was a carrier. Of course, in real life, the carrier would have some AEGIS ships as escorts(the lack of escorts in the movie really made me laugh).

17

His followup post 3 minutes later makes it clear that he’s aware of his error.

18

http://catless.ncl.ac.uk/Risks/7.28.html

This is typical of Pentagon testing, and seems to be particularly prevalent in
the Aegis system. An interesting parallel concerns the testing for the Phalanx
close-in shipboard missile defense system, which of course is included as part
of the Aegis umbrella. The Navy’s final results of the testing conducted for
Phalanx reported that the system had achieved greater than 80% “success.” But
what was the definition of “success?” Pentagon watchdog groups did a little
digging with the Freedom of Information Act, and determined that “success” had
been interpreted as “destruction of the incoming missile.” Well, that seemed
okay, so most investigations were dropped. But some whistle-blowers in the
Pentagon produced some disconcerting information. While it was true that
simulated incoming missiles had indeed been “hit” and “destroyed,” it had been
determined that the debris and rocket fuel of the destroyed missile would
continue onward and hit the ship, causing tremendous impact and an inevitable
fire. It was estimated that this would be enough to destroy or knock out
nearly any vessel. But since the simulated missiles had been “destroyed,” the
Navy proudly announced that Phalanx had passed the test. Empirical evidence
from the Falklands war makes the Phalanx testing look even less realistic.
Only one of the Exocets hitting Royal Navy ships exploded, yet the dud Exocets
still did hellish damage, including sinking two ships.

(I don’t know if this information is accurate.)

19

Just a minor point, carriers do carry several Phalanx guns systems, as well as smaller anti-airmissles(Sea-Sparrows, to be exact.)

20

Makes me wonder why they’re getting rid of the phalanx. The official reason is that the evolved sea sparrow will provide better cover - but why not provide multi-tiered, last-chance point defense if it’s essentially free? (Self contained radar, takes up a small space on the ship).