Naw, Al Gore's son would never do anything like that...

[neutron_star]

*Originally posted by Coldfire *
**Also, the point about neutron star’s research still stands. Thousands of blood tests, no signs of “danger” as n.s. put it. What were they testing? The Australian link demonstrates that elevated THC levels stemming from marijuana use can indeed be observed from a blood sample. How in the hell do “thousands of blood samples”, taken in the US, from admitted recent MJ users, show no signs of danger, or whatever vague phrasing is used?

What? Admitted recent marijuana users? Are you sure you’re reading these studies right? Both the U.S. NHTSA and the Australian studies tested the blood of people found to be at-fault in fatal auto accidents. While a correlation between being drunk and being at-fault can easily be found, no such link can be found for marijuana.

*Originally posted by t-keela *
But the cite and most I’ve read, dismiss the effects of marijuana on drivers when alcohol is also present in their system. Which is about half the time. Pretty convenient huh?

No, that’s called eliminating other known major risk factors to determine whether marijuana really is, by itself, a factor in accidents or not. We know that drunk driving is dangerous. Including drunk drivers skewers the results. In fact, that’s one the problems with Edward the Head’s cite, in addition to the other flaws pointed out by Mr2001.

*Originally posted by DaveW *
I’m not sure how else to re-word it. The cites which had been put up by the time I’d posted, it seemed to me, involved either fatalities or at-fault drug use. Since a stoned driver who simply couldn’t put on the brakes fast enough to avoid a sober red-light runner, yet lived to get high again, would be neither dead nor at fault, they would not be included in such statistics, and so there was data missing. The Australian study appears to do something to include such people, but it just makes me want to know what percentage of accidents are reported (out of the total number of accidents), and for what percentage of them was the proper testing for THC done (and in what timeframe).

Okay, I see what you’re saying. You’re right that more data and more clarification on the testing methods are needed. Depending on the cutoff level in THC testing, results can be quite variable.

How many of the good players are stoned?

Well, the list of players either arrested for marijuana possession or suspended from play for testing positive for THC two or more times includes Allen Iverson, Kareen Abdul-Jabbar, Chris Webber, Lamar Odom, Jason Williams, Robert Parish, Mookie Blaylock, and Isaiah Rider. I sure wouldn’t mind having those guys on a pickup team with me…

What seems clear to me is that there are plenty of unaccounted-for situations where driving stoned may lead to a higher risk of danger to life or property than driving sober. Until those gaps in knowledge are filled in (somehow), erring on the side of caution by not driving while wasted should be the behaviour to choose, if a person gives a hoot about the other people on and off the road.

While I consider that a valid and logical conclusion to draw based on the dearth of reliable and easily comparable data sets, I don’t think it applies in all cases. Consider my, er, friend, and his driving record, having logged thousands of stoned hours on the road:

Completely Sober: At least six tickets for speeding and similar moving violations- enough to earn the pleasure of a temporarily suspended license at one point. Totalled two vehicles in single-car accidents, and killed the engine of another by driving it 100 MPH with no oil. Hit one of his cars with the other, scraping both. Dinged a car trying to parallel park. Rear-ended an occupied vehicle at low speed due to being distracted by a pizza coupon.

Stoned: Never involved in an accident of any kind. One speeding ticket - 10 MPH over on a desolate, desert Interstate. The officer couldn’t tell he was stoned.

[PharmBoy]

*Originally posted by Ryle Dup *
**Driving under the influence of marijuana puts no one at risk, unless you’re counting the goldfish and doritos. **

What the hell are you talking about?? Pot slows your reflexes and alters your perception of reality, neither of which is a good idea while operating a two ton machine.

Jesus, pal, get a clue

[Coldfire]

neutron star, I agree that it’s hard to tell from EtH’s cite, but wouldn’t it be logical to assume some of those 12% of drivers-at-fault with MJ in their blood had not been drinking? As a matter of experience, I’ve found out that combining alcohol and marijuana can be quite unpleasant - a lot of smokers toke up while completely sober, in the alcohol sense. I don’t think it’s unreasonable to assume a lot of the drivers in this example also didn’t consume alcohol.

[neutron_star]

*Originally posted by Coldfire *
**neutron star, I agree that it’s hard to tell from EtH’s cite, but wouldn’t it be logical to assume some of those 12% of drivers-at-fault with MJ in their blood had not been drinking? As a matter of experience, I’ve found out that combining alcohol and marijuana can be quite unpleasant - a lot of smokers toke up while completely sober, in the alcohol sense. I don’t think it’s unreasonable to assume a lot of the drivers in this example also didn’t consume alcohol. **

Of course we can assume that some people had been smoking and not drinking. The problem is that we don’t know how many. In my experience, alcohol and marijuana complement each other quite nicely. Even one drink of alcohol can make my stomach hurt and pot helps it to feel better while getting me stoned at the same time. In fact, in times where I’ve had to quit smoking to pass a drug test, I quit drinking as well, since I found its effects to be unpleasant without pot.

To get a rough idea of how many people in that study were on marijuana alone, we can look at the numbers in other studies that did break the groups down. Generally, you’ll find that 60-80% of at-fault drivers with marijuana in their systems had also been drinking. While that may seem surprising initially, it makes a little more sense when you consider that only 10-20% of the population uses marijuana, while alcohol is consumed by a solid 75%.

[t-keela]

while alcohol is consumed by a solid 75%.

I’m not so sure about that. Most of the references I’ve read claim figures nearer to 60%. Several cites as low as half.

But a solid 75% is questionable IMO.

What I find most convincing though is the personal testimony of admitted marijuana smokers who say "Don’t smoke and drive, it can be dangerous."

[t-keela]

neutron star Let me be the first to say uncle. I see that you are a goddamned coonass.
When I lived in N’orleans (mom’s family), if you didn’t drink and drive while smoking dope, you were in the minority of folks.

I’ve got family there. Bunch of loudass, shittalking, hellraising, in your face motherfuckers, very emotional folks. They ALL drink, smoke dope, show their ass all the time…locked up, etc.

I wish they would ONLY smoke dope. It’d probably make 'em almost bearable.