Good piece – thanks for the link.
It’s been mentioned before, but if the NBA is fixing things for big market match-ups in the Finals, they are really, really bad at it.
2000 Lakers v Pacers
2001 Lakers v 76ers
2002 Lakers v Nets
2003 Spurs v Nets
2004 Pistons v Lakers
2005 Spurs v Pistons
2006 Heat v Mavericks
2007 Spurs v Cavaliers
Only one of these series involves two mega-market teams meaning those which seem to be generally thought of as the big market teams) - 2001. Otherwise, the pattern that seems to present itself is that certain teams were just better than the competition - the Lakers, the Spurs, the Pistons. And guess what - they had better players.
There is no doubt this year is the match up the marketing people wanted. But then again, the two teams are almost certainly the best teams in their conferences on a talent basis.
Donaghy picked that game to blame deliberately. It was badly called, no doubt. I would be more likely to believe that a game that wasn’t so comically referreed was a fix. If a person is going to rob a bank, walking down the street in a ski mask, carrying a gun, and holding a sack with “SWAG” painted on it in big-ass letters probably isn’t the way to do it. I believe the NBA are way too savvy to fix games. But more importantly, perhaps, I believe they are savvy enough that if they were to fix games, they would do one hell of a lot of a better job on it.
You do know Donaghy’s original testimony was 11 months ago. The FBI has been investigated every thing he told them since then. Do you not think if he was coming out badly ,the story would be gone by now?
You don’t know how the press works. Why would a story about a huge accusation disappear in 48 hours? The press is always going to cover the allegations, and I’m not surprised the government is saying nothing.
For that matter, if Donaghy’s allegations were investigated and the investigation went anywhere, don’t you think it would have come out months ago? I meant to make that point earlier. If there was anything to this, we wouldn’t just be hearing about it now from his lawyer.
I know how the FBI works, He would have been discredited and in deep trouble. He is not. A couple retired refs said the FBI questioned them about a ref named Bavassi.( i think) I will look for the article.
Federal agents asking questions about Bavetta - ESPN It was Bavetta. Here is the article. I think we should wait before we condemn Donaghy.
Yes, some refs were questioned. Almost a year later, no charges have been brought and the government has said nothing about it- again, we’re learning about most of this from Donaghy’s lawyer. Does that sound like the same government that leaked every possible detail in the Bonds case?
Donaghy is lying to save his ass, and the 2002 game six needs context to understand. This article captures it well.
I think he’s lying, but if independent evidence shows up I’m willing to be convinced. My entire point in this thread has been that you should wait before believing Donaghy, for the reasons I’ve laid out and for the ones given in the article Mullinator and Stringer posted.
I don’t know why we should be giving the NBA the benefit of the doubt. After all we are not talking about IF games were thrown or fixed, we are talking about how many games and for what reasons.
We have seen huge officiating scandals in the past. Think of the Russian-French conspiracy at the SLC Olympics, the huge soccer officiating scandal in Italy in 2006 or the 1972 Olympic basketball fiasco. Officials have cheated. The NBA has been a part of this. For the league to now take the attitude that any further allegations can have no possible merit is silly. If someone had said there was an officiating problem two years ago do you think they league would have said anything other than “no way?” They seem content to stick their heads in the sand and hope the whole thing just goes away. How does the league know that there are no further problems? How can they be so sure?
Because of the lack of evidence to support Donaghy’s allegations at this point.
Donaghy is not an aberration. Many people have felt games were strangely reffed for years. There is a history of games that players and coaches have screamed about officiating afterwards . Many have left games furious. This Donaghy does not exist in a vacuum. It actually has a lot of players,coaches and fans saying, I knew that . That actually defines the problem. Many,many people have had previous doubt solidified by this scandal. The league has responded exactly like we thought they would.
gonzo, there’s no doubt that “many people” think NBA reffing smells bad, or that games like the 2002 Sacramento/LA game 6 have touched off waves of conspiracy accusations.
I think what Marley is getting at is that those things don’t add up to proof of corruption on the part of the league. The Kelly Dwyer article linked twice above in the thread does a great job of teasing out the context for the La/Sacramento game in particular.
If when the dust settles from the Donaghy affair David Stern and other league officials are revealed to be moustachioed villains counting stacks of million dollar bills while calling in fixes on games, I’ll accept it and be sad about the state of a sport I like.
But I’d need some proof before I make that assumption. NBA reffing has big problems. One of those problems may or may not be corruption. But I think you’re assuming your own preferred conclusion here.
~fig
Well put, Figaro. Thanks.
2 things:
First, you can find summer leagues from 3rd grade up in which a group of fans on the losing team will be sure the ref was caling things against their team jsut because it’s their team. Basketball is likely the hardest sport to properly ref during the flow of the action. Yes, there is certain incompetence at play, human bias, etc but to think the allegations of an already admitted game changer attempting to minimize his punishment any way possible should be assumed true is so blatantly misguided it is almost laughable.
Second, I am still waiting for someone to explain to me how something along these lines (mass reffing/game throwing/series drawing out conspiracy) is possible when:
-You’d need the concerted efforts of well over 100 people, often when those people have competing agendas and priorities
-You’d need utter silence from all of them. No leaks, no whispered tips to a friend in the media, nothing
-You’d need to do it in such a way as to not alert people to statistical anomalies
-You’d need to assume these people couldn’t do basic math. If this were true and found out, the league would cease to be as it currently is, all involved would lose their jobs, most would be heavily fine, most would go to jail not to mention social stigma, future unemployability, etc. And, all of those pressures go back to the need to keep it all secret. No one anywhere would have had a twinge of conscience to make the right and lawful choice?
This entire spectacle is essentially moving forward on the “I heard it from a friend” train. Next thing you know, this scandal will embroil Lemonjello and Orangejello and incorporate Eddie Murphy telling someone to hit the floor on an elevator.
Thats silly. Pro ball has had a special distrust for years. Not by kids but real pros and even pro writers. Players,coaches and writers are not just poorly educated kids.
All you require is a ref. Better 2 or the whole staff in charge of a game. They can do it easily. A single ref can alter the game though.
It’s not a special distrust. Pro ball has had a bigger distrust because of the larger audience than some random high school team, but the tenor of griping about refs is no different on any level, the pro game just has a bigger audience to voice it. I tend to believe when the griping is widespread, the issue isn’t refs calling games to force an outcome, it’s that refs are calling games inconsistently and seomtimes getting caught up in the moment. There is no team, player or fanbase in the NBA that doesn’t have some grouping of games in their memory where they would point to it and say “I don’t know if there is cheating, but if there is, it’s in these games.”
Pro basketball has “a special distrust” because there’s money involved, along with longtime passions. Parents and coaches complain at kiddie league refs (I’ve been one, although only for a few games) and high school refs, but the pros are at a different scale. As I said way upthread, mostly, people complain that games are fixed when a call - good or bad - goes against their team. I’m a sports fan and sports fans are not rational at all when it comes to their teams. You’ve cited the players’ reactions several times as if that means anything. Players try to show up the refs to game the system. If a foul is called, they overreact to try to get the refs to overlook it next time. If the foul isn’t called, they say they were hit so the ref will call it later. Sometimes they’re right and the officials blew it, sometimes they’re acting. Basketball players complain on every level. It’s part of basketball culture, I guess, because there are players in my office rec league who do it and we don’t even have officials.
I can tell you firsthand that some journalists think everything is rigged. 
I do not think in this case it is imagination or projection.
I don’t think it’s imagination or projection either. I think it’s probably lying. But we’ll see.