Nuh-uh. From here
“The usual timeframe for wearing white dinner jackets is Victoria Day through Labor Day, and a strict traditionalist would tell you that they should only be worn during the day, not in the evening. In fact, the traditionalist might even go so far as to tell you that if the event extends into the evening, you should change out of your white dinner jacket and into a black tuxedo coat at 5:00 or 6:00 P.M. However, as conventions today are less stringent than in the past, it is generally considered acceptable to wear a white jacket throughout the entire event.”
Business wear is never traditionally acceptable as semi-formal wear. Semi-formal is for dinner jackets, black tie for tuxedos and formal events demand white tie. I know this stuff is archaic, but I enjoy archaic dress rules.
or go full-out, come in in a black suit…of plate-mail armor and walk around all night going “None Shall Pass!”, if someone bumps into you, “I’ve 'ad Worse”, and most of all… “I’m INVINCIBLE!”
I know I sound clueless in this thread, but I knew what you meant. I’m not Sgt. Pepper.
I got the impression that “black/white” attire was one of those fashion code phrases (like “morning dress” doesn’t mean bathrobe and slippers) and then they had to explain it when they found out that’s one code that computer programmers don’t know.
Is there any place I can get a Nehru jacket by Saturday?
My thoughts on vests are: Vest with suit (i.e., pants and jacket sold as a set in matching fabrics, up to and including a tuxedo) = okay, at least in theory, though (except at the top end of the tailoring and/or price range) the vest shouldn’t match the suit, lest one look like Herb on WKRP. Vest without jacket of any kind = waaaayyy nuh-uh, unless you’re a casino dealer or a woman in a production of Cabaret, or otherwise in costume laden with irony. Non-matching vest (even, if you can carry it off, a sweater vest) under a sportcoat or blazer with not-trying-to-match pants = okay, as long as you don’t take the coat off ('cause a gentleman never…oh, nevermind) adn as long as you understand that there is nothing formal about this attire. Correct? Versatile? Yes. Yes. But, not formal.
For the record, the reason I mentioned navy is that I end to think that if a man owns no other passable jacket, he should start with a tropical weight navy wool blazer with brass or gold buttons. Next, a good tweed jacket. Then, maybe, camel hair (unless he is so uniformly camelhair colored in skin and/or hair tone that he might be mistaken for a camel in one. Also, camelhair and khaki shouldn’t know about each other, unless the guy in question has long-since graduated from the Geranimals for Men level of dressing himself. Such men are rare.). Then, a suit: maybe dark charcoal (acceptable for a wedding, a funeral, some interviews, going out to dinner or a schmancy perfomance, generally being a grown-up guy). It’s a fortunate guy who is shaped like Brooks Brothers suits, as they are reasonably priced and way respectable. My hang-ups: black, navy, or grey men’s pants should be wool or wool-ish slacks – not cotton Dockers-like pants. They fade fast in the wash and look (especially the black or navy ones) like uniform pants or waiter pants.
I’m sure there’s more, but that’s it for the moment.
What if I take that advice, but in reverse, so to speak. Once he’s got all the basics that you describe, what’s the last outfit that a guy should buy, but still actually wear.
I have no idea why this is an issue with me, but it still kinda is.
Sweater vest - often worn by married men whose wives shop for them. I think a sweater vest says “I’m well, or at least abundantly, cared for by a very attentive wife. In fact, she’s right behind you.”
Only if he owns a yacht or went to a college that requred such, otherwise ditch the brass buttons and have them replaced at the tailor with something black and flat on the front and with nothing at all besides one button on the cuff. Navy jackets with brass buttons make you look like Thurston Howell. ETA - the black buttons also make it possible to wear that jacket with jeans and an oxford shirt or one of those quarter zip thin wool pullovers.
Something that’s difficult to wear like silk, linen, seersucker or buffed Italian wool (think Sil on the Sopranos). Those all look very, very nice but tend to wrinkle faster than you can say “sweat”.
The “Vegas Suit” I would include. Colorful with a high sheen, slimly tailored. Very nice on the right man, inappropriate for most occasions. Seen often on Christopher in the Sopranos.
Agreed. The last suit you should include is a “fun” suit. That’s after you have business and dress clothes down pat and wear them well. And by that I mean you know to pull up the knees of your pants when you sit down so as to not wreck your creases, when and when not to button your coat, how to tie at least 3 tie knots, etc. One detail off on your business suit isn’t going to get noticed, one detail off on a flashy Motown style suit and you’ll look like a clown.
The same goes for French cuffs. They’re not really practical and they can be slightly difficult to pull off well if your jacket isn’t tailored for it. Those fall under the “fun” part and wearing a fun suit with fun appoitments is really hard to do unless you’ve got the style down perfectly.
what could be more fun than a real plate-mail suit of armor and a rubber chicken, you could go around doing that Monty Python “Knight with rubber chicken” gag all knight…err…night
I’m not exactly sure what you’re asking. Or, if I am, you may not like my answer. Guys get to distinguish themselves with quality, not so much with creativity. Let’s see, if money is almost no object and the guy isn’t an investment banker or Hollywood producer or waiter or airline pilot or something else that requires a specific “look” to be successful, then we default to the bein’ a guy who has something to wear to pretty much anything wardrobe.
The Bein’ A Guy Who Has Something to Wear to Pretty Much Anything Wardrobe (Quantities tipped in favor of a guy who wears khakis and a button-down shirt to work most of the time; aesthetics tipped in favor of the western (bot not cowboy-y) U.S.) (First Draft)
2 or 3 pairs of jeans that fit well and are in good repair. 2 should be blue. If you go for a third and it suits you, black is okay for the third pair.
5 or so non-illustrated (my hang-up) colored t-shirts or (as you prefer) polo shirts
a few cotton turtlenecks if climate-appropriate and you don’t have a fat neck or a really round head. One or two of these could/should be black if it flatters you.
2 or 3 long sleeved wool sweaters in varying weights. Not cardigans.
3 or more pairs of khaki pants. These are all cotton and no-iron and the dust/sand color of true khaki. Waist size should match your actual girth.
long sleeved business shirts, some blue and some white. These are also all cotton and no-iron. Oxford cloth button-downs wear well (but have at least one white smooth-textured shirt). These shirts are all solid colored or they may have a subtle stripe, but they don’t have contrasting cuffs and collars or curved collars. Make sure the fit is correct, especially at the neck because it is really noticeable if the neck is too loose or too tight. French cuffs are
2 or 3 pairs of tropical weight wool trousers. Maybe black, charcoal and navy.
a charcoal colored two piece suit. (This will rarely leave the closet, but you’ll be glad you have it when you need it on short notice.)
silk neckties (not bowties unless you’re a conservative pundit or Blinky the Clown – either of which would require profession-appropriate modifications to this wardrobe). Obnoxious or creative or beautiful choices are encouraged.
a good black belt (fully-sewn, discreet buckle, 1" to 1 1/4" wide)
-a good brown belt (can be a little more toward the Ralph Lauren, American-spirit end of the belt spectrum, but a Rodeo champion sized buckle is right out unless you are a rodeo champion)
Black lace-up shoes with a little shine to them.
Brown lace-up shoes. Not so shiny (by design).
A presentable pair of comfortable athletic shoes for just goin’ through life – grocery shopping, taking the dog to the kennel, going to a movie, hanging around, etc.
The aforementioned navy tropical weight wool blazer with shiny buttons.
1 or 2 tweed jackets.
Optional camelhair jacket.
Athletic wear, for athletic purposes.
Resortwear for resort purposes, including resort-y activities near home. Non-athletic shorts, short sleeved silk shirts if it’s really hot out, aloha shirts if you must and I’m not married to you, sandals, swimsuit, white or ivory slacks. Extra points for linen.
-Pajamas are optional, but a good Turkish cotton bathrobe is not.
-A tux. Do the cost benefit on whether to buy or be ready to rent at a moment’s notice. Bought on sale and well-tailored, a low-end tux can look great and it’s always there. Kiss off the special tux shirt and the shirt studs etc.; you can wear your smooth white dress shirt and be fine, especially if it has French cuffs (and you have cufflinks). Buy a waistcoat or cummerbund that you like. This is another opportunity for an obnoxious choice. Buy a black bow tie if you buy a tux. The real kind…that requires tying. Just wear your kinda shiny black lace-up shoes. Rented shoes are creepy – starting with bowling shoes and working up to the tux shop shoes.
-A white or ivory linen dinner jacket. We’re at the outer reaches here, but it’s summer or resort evening wear in the modern world and it looks swanky. You can wear an obnoxious (non-black) bowtie with this one. Travelling with linen is nearly impossible, but don’t let that stop you.
-the undies of your choice
-crew neck white cotton undershirts
-white (no stripes) athletic socks for athletic purpose and to wear with your everyday, non-professionall comfy shoes
-fine-knit silk, cotton and/or wool socks to wear when dressed in Big Boy clothes.
-fine-knit long underwear in silk and/or merino wool if climate-appropriate.
-Winter outerwear: a parka, a wool overcoat, snowboots (Sorels or something), hat, leather gloves, knit or techno-ski gloves, knit hat, thick woolie socks.
-a casual leather or other zip-up jacket.
Forgive me, but I’m confused because you seem to be going back and forth between archaic and modern usage of the terms. In olden times, there was formal and informal (or semi-formal), but no such thing as “black tie.” So when you say there was “semi-formal . . . [and] black tie… [and] white tie” that makes no sense. Today, of course, there is semi-formal, black tie, and white tie.
So, if you’re into the archaic rules, there is no such thing as “black tie” or “white tie.” Black tie IS evening semi-formal in traditional usage, and white tie IS evening formal, so let’s get our terminology straight. Modern semi-formal during the day or evening is a business suit, archaic semi-formal (for an evening event) is modern black tie.
Also, I’m failing to see how a dinner jacket is to be worn during the day. A tuxedo jacket is by definition a (black) dinner jacket, but not all dinner jackets are tuxedo jackets. What I’m saying is your cite is just plain wrong. I present to you “Protocol for the Modern Diplomat,” courtesy of the US Department of State, using modern terminology:
I don’t see the shiny buttons as an impediment to the combinations you suggest, which are all great; they imply “I wear my jacket. My jacket does not wear me.” quite well.
Well if it’s July and dinner is at 5:00pm then it’s still daylight and not time for evening wear. I’m also not accepting the US State Department as the be all end all in mens fashion. Have you *seen * some of those people?
I’m still looking for more cites. It would seem that either Men’s Warehouse stole from my first link or vice versa. Note that I did mention that the white dinner jacket thing is a much older convention than what would be a guideline today, but then again people wear oxford shirts and loafers with suits these days as well.
Style is a personal thing, and I personally hate brass buttons, but I love navy blazers. I just feel that it works better as a tasteful piece of clothing if one ditches the brass buttons. Switching the buttons changes it from a “Navy blazer” to a “dark blue jacket” and I find it more versatile.
Unless you really want to wear a straw boater. Then keep the shiny buttons.
I’m sort of the opposite. I can wear this (don’t look, Tabula) to work if I want to. Most of my neckties come from museum gift shops. I don’t need a reliable suit, just something really stylin’ for when I’m out on the town.
The shoe from the OP? Just found out it’s discontinued; damn, damn, damn!
Again, a white dinner jacket is interchangeable with a black (aka tuxedo) dinner jacket, but its use is generally limited to temperature/climate, not time of day. Other than a wedding, I cannot think of any reason why anyone would ask for evening dress during daylight hours, and formal daylight weddings would call for morning dress, not dinner jackets.
