need car maintenance advice on brake rotors... Am I getting bullshat?

For about 10 years I’ve been using a local gas station’s service shop for car maintenance, mainly because they’re within walking distance and I can drop a car off there and get it back with minimum disruption. Somehow it always feels like every time I leave it for routine work like oil change, state inspection and tire rotation, they call me back with something wrong with the car that needs fixing.

Here’s the thing: I don’t drive either of my cars very much, and a lot of the miles I do put on them are NYC city driving (especially on the one car), so all the mileage markers for expected service go right out the window for me. For example, my oldest car now is a Subaru Forester I got new in May of 2003 and which has yet to reach the 32,000 mile mark - this after I put 1,000 break-in miles on it in the first month I owned it on a road trip through Pennsylvania and Delaware.

Today I brought it in for its annual synth oil change, state inspection, new wipers, etc., and got called back with the news that both my brake rotors, front and back, were rusted to a dangerous level and my front struts too. Total cost after tax, about $1,600. For an 8 year old car I have driven less than 2,000 miles in the past year.

Whoa.

I checked my service records, and as recently as 8/17/2009 - only about TWO years ago - they reported to me that I needed the front (but not rear) brake pads and rotors replaced, at 27,233 miles, due to severe rust. So in 2 years and 3,500 miles or so, I now need front AND back brake pads and rotors? WTF?

The mechanic was “surprised” to find that the front rotors had been replaced so recently, and asked if they were cheaper aftermarket ones or OEM, as the OEM ones that “cost more” would have a coating to prevent rust. I told him he should tell me what he put on there, as the receipt only reads “brake pads and rotors”.

I have no savvy to challenge him on this but really, is this reasonable? Sure it’s been a record year for summer rain around these parts, and since 2009 it seems every summer has been a new record for rain, rain, rain… And the car mostly sits in my driveway (not inside a covered garage) doing nothing much. But to rust that much in just 2 years seems unlikely.

On the other hand, since buying it in 2003 I have only spent about $6,500 in parts and maintenance of this car over 8+ years, not including body work and not including this latest round - brake pads and rotors, tires, hoses and belts, oil and filter changes, headlight bulbs, suspension parts like struts and stabilizer links. So I guess it is not outrageously out of line in total dollar cost, it comes to under $85 a month over the lifetime of the vehicle so far.

What do you think (assuming “you” are a Doper with more knowledge/experience with infrequently driven city car maintenance or depreciation/deterioration than I have)?

I think you are being bullshat, which is doubly dangerous because should your local neighborhood mechanic be telling you something that’s both true and important, you’ll be disinclined to believe him.

Rotors need to be replaced if they’re warped (from overheating, usually a stuck caliper) or if they’ve become very thin. If you’re exceptionially hard on your brakes, it’s possible they’re thin after 2 years. If you’re a normal, easy driver, you’re getting taken for a ride. “Dangerously rusted” is a bit of a bullshit statement. The brake pads abrade off the rust where they contact the pad, and places where the pads do not contact the rotor normally get rusty and you don’t care.

Find another mechanic. Rotors rust. Mine do every time it rains. It’s simply surface rust and is quickly removed by using the brakes. I would not recommend applying anything to the contact surface, petroleum products and brake pads don’t mix well.
You’re getting screwed.

ditto with what snowmaster said.

How much winter driving do you do? Do you wash your car after a snowstorm? My BS meter is pegging right now over your mechanics expertise. Presuming the brake rotors are “rusted”, a quick look underneath the vehicle should show that other metal parts of smaller gauge metal much worse for the wear. Or maybe this is a case of rotor rust stigmata.

Go find another mechanic and get his opinion. Ask around at work, or your neighborhood if they know of one who is reliable and honest.

Even “approved” shops are suspect…I stopped at a shop one time rated as “happy fun ball” by AAA of Southern California for a quick checkup*. They said it needed $1000+ of work to get it ready or it would die on the way back to the house. :rolleyes:
*BTW, I do my own work, but didn’t have access to my tools at the time.

Rust? Where? On the surface? As stated by MNC, rust on the surface - where the pads make contact with the rotor - is not usually a problem. There will likely be rust wherever the pads do *not *contact the rotor, but this is also usually not a problem. Steel rusts. And a surface coating of rust is actually a protective layer.

I am not a mechanic, but it my understanding that rotors should be replaced…

  1. Because they’re worn down (i.e. too thin). This can be easily checked with a micrometer. Often, the minimum thickness is stamped on the rotor.

  2. Because they’re warped. A runout measurement can be easily performed using a depth gauge.

  3. Because there are grooves in it. This happens when the brake pads get too worn down.

Here IMHO is where the BS shovel came out. Coating? That would survive abrasion by brake pads? Uh, no. The OEM rotors may use a different steel alloy that is less prone to rust but as others have mentioned, if your rotors were in distress you would be hearing all kinds of grinding and scraping noises when you apply the brakes as the rust buildup was being polished off by the pads. A few laps around the block should take care of any surface rust of merit.

Yeah, that’s kinda what I figured. Having brake pads that need replacing is one thing, and rotors that go out after 8 years maybe; but 2 years? They just overreached.

I’ll call at 7am tomorrow AM to countermand the authorization to do the work and take it elsewhere for a second opinion. It could, after all, be that the original work 2 years ago was the fake out (never actually done) and that this is somehow legit.

Is a car mostly sitting there in the Northeast rain and snow and getting minimally and locally driven a legitimate risk for warping rotors? I still don’t really buy it.

Know how a 10-speed bicycle brakes work? Those little rubber pads grab onto the rim of the wheel, right? that’s basically how disc brakes work. Any “protective coating” applied to the rotor is going to be burned off within 60 cumulative seconds of brake use. Also, brakes guys will sometimes tell you your rotors need to be “turned,” by which they mean a thin layer of the surface of the rotor needs to be ground off (which I think is BS but maybe there’s something to it). Again, this is going to annihilate any “protective coating.” You need to either get a new mechanic or have a man’s man teach you some basic auto maintenance. That’s not a slam on you, by the way, a lot of folks have better stuff to do than work on their cars. But there’s some things everyone should know the basics of. Pie making and chess are a couple others.

Oh, and rotors warp from excessive heat usually caused by heavy braking. Another way is if the pads (calipers) are stuck and never fully disengage. Sitting for too long might cause them to stick, resulting in overheated and warped rotors. You know your rotors are warped if the car pulses under light, steady braking. You know your caliper is sticking if the car pulls to one side under light steady braking.

“Rusted to a dangerous level” doesn’t ring true. Rotors can get quite rusty (way beyond surface rust that the pads will clean off) in certain climates on cars that sit, but the brakes will still stop the car. They may be scary looking, but that doesn’t mean they’re dangerous.

Rotors that THEY replaced two years ago needing replacement now – they should be embarrassed to get caught in this one, but it sounds like they’re just going to bluff their way through it.

The only coating to prevent rust on brake rotors is for shipping purposes, and it needs to be thoroughly cleaned off the new rotors before the car is driven. You’ve been fed a ridiculous line, which smacks of blatant dishonesty (or crippling ignorance, which serves you no better). Time to find an honorable, competent shop.

It ain’t BS. Over time the brake rotor and pad will wear against each other and generate grooves. If you replace the pads and don’t turn the rotor, you’ll have a mismatch between the flat break pad and the grooved rotor. That’s a hit on braking force, especially if it gets wet.

There’s only so many times you can turn a rotor before the surface become too thin. Usually a number is stamped on the rotor which indicates the minimum thickness.

Complete bullshit. I’ve got an '01 Impreza I’ve driven from new (and on which the OP’s Forester is based), with 171,000 miles on it. Never have had to do anything to the rotors and its still wearing its original shocks.

For these kind of things, it’s not that difficult. As others have said, if it is not vibrating or pulling under brake application, and it there are no particular noises, sensations or uneven tire wear that would indicate running gear issues, there’s nothing wrong with it. I’d take my business elsewhere.

I’ve knocked a considerable amount of rust off the INSIDE of a rotor. I could see them being too thin to turn because of this. But that was back in the day of disposable cars that didn’t last much past 70K miles.

Well I’m getting the car this morning sans brakes work, which the guy told me on the phone is really dangerous and he nearly failed my state inspection over it but let me go because he’s known me for so long, if I promised to “take care of it soon”. Rather than outright accuse him of chicanery (especially if somehow he’s not guilty), I begged off on financial grounds (the work added up to almost $1800, ouch).

I guess I’ll take it to another mechanic for a “second opinion”? Unless the question “do I need new brake rotors” gets a traditional answer of “yes” if the alternative is no work to bill at all?

How could I best get a straight answer I can trust here?

Just a couple of things to note here.
Brake rotors aren’t steel they are a cast iron and depending on the additives in the iron mix when cast they may be slightly more or less prone to rust than a different compound.
Very very low mile cars can have rotor rust issues that go way beyond I left my car parked for 3 days in the rain and I can see rust on the surface If the rotor stage.
I have seen cars with rust pits on the surface of the rotor that made me wonder about the effectiveness of the braking system. (rust pits = less surface area for the pads to contact)
But I am here in sunny California so I don’t see this condition often. In NY I would expect to see this a lot more often. When I have seen it it has been on cars that have spent time back in snow country.
Not being able to see the rotors in question I can offer no opinion as to their serviceability.

One more thing 1.6 kilo bucks feels high for struts and brakes on your car. If you were driving a European car (MBZ, BMW, Volvo) these prices would be in line, but for a scooby-doo? Those parts are way cheap in my experience.
I could be wrong but those prices just feel high to me.
Get a second opinion would be my advice.

My rotors have a tendency to rust, between Chicago driving one day, and sitting for a weekend following. So I was concerned and took it in to the dealer, who said, “They’re fine.” I suspect you’re being taken. Good thing you suspect it too.

Take it to a few places for inspections, and compare what each of them comes up with.

… turning rotors …

It’s partial BS. If you don’t turn the rotors you will have to get on the pedal harder for a while until the new pads adapt to the non-even rotor surface. Normally less than a week of driving to work and the brakes are back to normal. Shops do it because it’s hard to explain to most customers why their brakes are “bad” when they pick the car up.

Yep. And this is the reason I never turn my rotors, and another reason shops do. Every few brake jobs they do they get to also replace rotors and make more money.

$6500 in maintenance over an 8 year span for a late model Subaru with no miles seems high in general. This shop sounds like they make a habit of price gouging.

Again, when you drove the car to the mechanic, was there anything at all in the way the car operated that would lead you to believe that there was a mechanical problem with the brakes or suspension? If the car brakes as normal and if there are no noises or sensations that indicate damage to the suspension, the chance that there is an undiagnosed problem that will cause catastrophic failure of these components is next to nil.