Need help hooking up cable box, VCR & TV (long and complex)

For years I’ve hooked up all combinations of stereo equipment, and never had a problem connecting my TV, VCR, DVD player, audio receiver, etc.

I recently got a new HDTV and upgraded from basic cable to digital HD, requiring a cable box. All the components are Sony. After studying the several diagrams provided by Sony and Cox cable, I tried what seemed the logical one.

Everything worked, except I can’t use the timed-record menu, nor can I record one channel while watching another. I can only record the channel am watching.

I tried a couple of other hookups without success. The calls to both Cox and Sony make it plain that the so-called technical support people are completely lacking in any technical knowledge, other than what is on their PC screens in the help files.

I got several conflicting suggestions, none of which worked.

At first I hooked it up as follows: coax cable from wall into the cable box. Component cables from cable box to DVD-in and other component cables from DVD-out to TV and also audio cables to the TV. Then, composite cable from cable box to VCR-in, composite cables from VCR-out to the TV.

When that didn’t let me record as wanted, followed one diagram that added coax cable from cable box-out to the VCR-in. Also, on a whim, added coax cable from the VCR-out to the TV. No luck.

Following Cox’s suggestion: added a splitter and ran out coax cable from that directly to the TV and the other coax cable to the cable box-in and cable box-out to VCR-in.

Then, looked as though VCR would record OK, but slight problem, could not tune any TV stations. That sort of seemed logical, as the main coax was going directly to the TV, via the splitter.

I then tried the same setup, but disconnected the composite cable from the VCR to TV, same problem.

Finally, after googling a bit, ran across one diagram that was like the last one Cox suggested, except that a couple of the coax cables ran to an A/B switch (I forgot to bookmark the site, so can’t get back right now).

That seemed to make a bit of sense, as it would permit using the setup both ways, but it did not explain which switch did what. I suppose could get a switch and experiment, but am getting sick of the whole deal.

This was just one of the reasons I did not want a cable receiver and was happy with basic cable, as it was easy and logical to hookup.

So, is the A/B switch necessary to get the VCR to record delayed programs or record one while watching another channel? If not, is there some other way to get this system hooked up to do this?

One would think with the several calls I made to Sony and Cox, could find somebody who knew what the hell they were talking about, but oh, noooooo.

I think your problem may be more fundamental than your cabling. Your VCR has its own analogue receiver on board which previously would have allowed your TV and VCR to tune into seperate analogue frequencies. Your HD setup though only has one digital receiver, which means your options for taping are somewhat limited by what you are currently watching.

Oh meant to add, this is in light of my experience with over-the-air digital setups, but I think the same will apply to a cable one.

FFS! In my first post replace “digital recever” with “digital decoder”.

Hmm, afraid you may be right.

However, would not using an A/B switch with one cable coming directly to the switch and then to the TV, using A, it would put me back where I was, able to use the VCR to record? Then, with the B, (with other cable going to the cable receiver, etc) I’d be back using the cable receiver for everything else?

Or is that too simple a solution?

I don’t really know Geoff. In my situation I still have access to the analogue signal, so there’s a partial solution for me. Do you still have access to your analogue cable?

My cable company does this for a fee.
They install an A/B switch and hook up a second box.
Had it done two weeks ago, and can now tape HBO or Showtime, while I watch another channel.
A/B Switch…$10.00
Another box…$5.00 per month.
Labor$35.00.

I think Struan may be right. How did you formerly (with analog cable) have things set up so you could record one channel while watching another?

Here’s a trouble shoot.

Don’t worry about the VCR right now. Using only the cable, a good old-fashioned non-HDTV TV and the cable box…

Connect your old analog TV directly to the cable. Can you receive any channels using the tuner on your TV?

If not, connect your TV through the cable box, first through the component jacks, then through the coax jacks. Either way, can you change channels on the TV without changing them on the box, or can you only get different stations by changing the channel on the cable box?

If any of those three methods allows you to select channels using your TV tuner, that’s the one you need to use on your VCR. If not, it means that everything now needs to be converted by the cable box. Unfortunately that means you’ll only be able to record the channel the box is tuned to.

Thanks, kunilou. I got lost part way through your troubleshoot. :smiley:

I can received all the cable channels except the HD ones (up in the 700 number range.

That’s the statement I don’t quite get. I can’t just keep the old analog TV, as have the big HDTV as my main one. What does that tell me?

Incidently, in our bedroom I have a smaller flat screen HDTV, but did not want a cable box for that, as it gets all except HD channels. Use that mostly for DVDs and VCR tapes. So, hooked that up as normal with the coax cable going to the VCR and out to the TV. It works just fine. So, it’s the damn cable box causing all the trouibles on our main set.

Can you follow that? Can you take me steo-by-step through what I might do to the the VCR working?

If all else fails, I’ll just record on the bedroom set and play back on the livingroom one. I’m keeping at it as it seems to be a challenge; hard to believe that everything as advanced as digital HDTV can’t do a simple thing like record a tape that have been doing for years.

If the HD channels were not so spectacular, I’d just tell Cox what to do with their cable box!

I suggest that you run the output from the coax splitter to the VCR instead of the TV. Then run both the coax and composite outputs of the VCR to the corresponding inputs of the TV.

This will allow you to record all the non-digital channels on the VCR. Then, by switching between the TV’s inputs, you’ll be able to watch the cable box (component), the VCR (composite), or the non-digital cable channels (TV’s analog tuner). Of course, when the VCR’s on, you’ll see its output on channel 3 or 4 of the tuner. Turn it off (or push its “TV/VCR” switch) and all the analog channels will come through on the TV’s tuner.

An even better way is to split the incoming signal three ways: cable box, VCR, and TV. This way the TV’s tuner will get the analog channels directly, without going through the VCR, and without the potential interference when the VCR is in use. (There’s no good reason to watch the coax output of the VCR: the composite signal is almost certainly better.)

If you want to record a digital channel, you’ll have to tune the cable box to that channel and record it through the line (composite) input of the VCR. While doing that you can watch an analog channel on the TV’s tuner, but not another digital channel.

The only way to record one digital channel while watching another is with two cable boxes, as ltfire described.

I hope this is clear, and that it helps.

My question about being able to receive channels without using the cable box was meant to figure out if you need to bypass the old-fashioned tuner. Sorry I didn’t make that clear.

If you can plug your old TV directly into the cable and get non-HD channels, then you should be able to plug your VCR into the cable and get non-HD channels.

Putting it another way, you’re in exactly the same situation as someone with pay cable channels like HBO or Showtime. You can’t watch (or record) them without running the signal through your cable box.

If I read your OP correctly, you tried splliting the cable after you connected the cable box.

This time, try splitting your cable before connecting the box – one side into the VCR, the other into your cable box. You should now be able to record the non-digital channels on the VCR the same as always.

Then plug your TV into the cable box. You should be able to receive both the non-digital and digital channels using the cable box as your tuner – just as you would with HBO or pay-per-view.

You’re now going to ask the question “but how do I record the HD channels on my VCR?” Unfortunately, you can’t. Here are your options:

  1. Run the component output of your cable box into your VCR. You will be able to record the HD-channel – but only the one your cable box is tuned to at the time. Also, you won’t be able to time shift with most VCRs.

  2. Get a new-generation VCR or DVR that has an ATSC (digital) tuner in addition to the traditional NTSC (analog) tuner. However, the selection is extremely limited and the prices are high. This probably won’t change much until we get much closer to the February 2009 switchover from analog to digital.

  3. Do like ltfire and get a second cable box, using one for the TV and one for the VCR.

I hope this clears things up. I’m strictly an amateur in these things, but I’m trying to do something similar right now.

My question about being able to receive channels without using the cable box was meant to figure out if you need to bypass the old-fashioned tuner. Sorry I didn’t make that clear.

If you can plug your old TV directly into the cable and get non-HD channels, then you should be able to plug your VCR into the cable and get non-HD channels.

Putting it another way, you’re in exactly the same situation as someone with pay cable channels like HBO or Showtime. You can’t watch (or record) them without running the signal through your cable box.

If I read your OP correctly, you tried splliting the cable after you connected the cable box.

This time, try splitting your cable before connecting the box – one side into the VCR, the other into your cable box. You should now be able to record the non-digital channels on the VCR the same as always.

Then plug your TV into the cable box. You should be able to receive both the non-digital and digital channels using the cable box as your tuner – just as you would with HBO or pay-per-view.

You’re now going to ask the question “but how do I record the HD channels on my VCR?” Unfortunately, you can’t. Here are your options:

  1. Run the component output of your cable box into your VCR. You will be able to record the HD-channel – but only the one your cable box is tuned to at the time. Also, you won’t be able to time shift with most VCRs.

  2. Get a new-generation VCR or DVR that has an ATSC (digital) tuner in addition to the traditional NTSC (analog) tuner. However, the selection is extremely limited and the prices are high. This probably won’t change much until we get much closer to the February 2009 switchover from analog to digital.

  3. Do like ltfire and get a second cable box, using one for the TV and one for the VCR.

I hope this clears things up. I’m strictly an amateur in these things, but I’m trying to do something similar right now.

I had trouble following Sony’s paper manual that came with my (relatively) simple DVR to go with my DirecTv but its diagrams were too generic and inadequate. I went to their website and got the right diagramming. but I still haven’t figured out how to time-shift record on any other channel but Line 1, on which the unit has to be set when I go to bed. I can’t record a program a on channel 256 from 2-4 a.m. and then record on channel 258 at 5-6 a.m… I have to set the channel on 256 (as Line 1) and record only that one. Pardon the hijack, just wanted to share info on the online source that helped me. I don’t think I’ll upgrade to HD until they make it pure plug-n-play.

Heh! How old are you and what is your life expectancy? :smiley:

Are you sure you can’t program your cable box to switch to a certain channel at a certain time? Check the menus. I think on my system it’s called “Set a reminder.”

If you can’t, I think there are aftermarket remote controls that can be programmed to change channels at a certain time. You’d just leave it in front of the cable box and let it do its thing while you’re asleep.

BTW, kunilou

I think you meant to say composite output, not component. AFAIK, there are very few (if any) VCRs with component inputs.

And you can make a timed recording of a digital channel, the way Ignatz suggested: leave the cable box set for the channel, and set the VCR to record the line input.

(Needless to say, you can’t make an HD recording on a standard VCR. When viewing an HD channel, the composite output of the cable box is down-resed to a standard video signal, which can be recorded on the VCR.)

Wow. There’s a whole lot of stuff here, and all of it is so confusing. I am going to try to straighten some of this out.

First of all, an ATSC tuner isn’t going to help. The problem is that the digital signal from the cable co. is encrypted as well as digitized. The ATSC tuner won’t fix that – only the cable co’s box can do that (legally). If your new HDTV (or fancy, expensive VCR) has a cablecard slot, you may be able to get a cablecard from the cable co and ditch the box. Otherwise, ATSC is not your problem and the 2009 switchover has nothing to do with anything. Besides, your new HDTV has an ATSC tuner (unless it’s a “monitor” only).

Okay, Geoff, it sounds like you still have analog cable channels available to you if you don’t use the digital box. So, here’s how to connect everything up. It is, by the way, “plug and play”. The problem is you’ve been confusing several different signals and expecting them to all play well together. They won’t.

  1. Wall --> splitter --> VCR all via coaxial cable. Connect to the ANT IN port on the VCR.

  2. Wall --> splitter --> cable box all via coaxial cable. This, by the way is the same splitter as the one in step 1. Make sure the splitter can handle the frequency required to pass through the digital signal. Some splitters won’t pass that frequency. Ask your cable co for help. They may even give you the splitter for free.

  3. Cable box --> HDTV. Use component cables or HDMI ONLY! Anything else will not be HD. HDMI will also carry sound. Component will not, so you’ll need to handle sound seperately. Sound can be carried via a pair of audio cables (with RCA plugs), a coax digital cable, or an optical digital cable (best).

Turn on the HDTV. Select the input that you used to connect the cable box. You should be able to see and hear all of the channels that you subscribe to. The HD picture should take your breath away. Channels that are not in HD will be good, but may be disappointing. That is the nature of an HD display. We haven’t connected the VCR yet, so don’t expect that to work yet. It’s coming. Once you’ve confirmed that everything is working so far, turn the HDTV off.

  1. VCR --> HDTV. Use the composite cable. The jack on the VCR is probably yellow. Ignore the “out to TV” jack with the screw-type F connector. If you have an S-video out, use that (with an S-video cable). Using the composite or S-video cable, connect to a different set of inputs on the HDTV. Do not use jacks in the same neighborhood as the jacks you used in step three. Use a pair of audio cables to connect the sound from the VCR to the HDTV. There won’t be any digital connections since the VCR is not a digital source. If your VCR is mono only (get a new one), connect one audio cable between the VCR and the Audio L jack on your HDTV. Seriously, if the VCR is mono, trash it and get a stereo VCR. They’re cheap.

  2. DVD --> HDTV. Use component cables for this. You will also need to handle sound, just like you did with the cable box. Your choices are likely similar as well. Use a different input for the DVD player. Personally, I always use Digital In 1 for cable/satellite and Digital In 2 for DVD. If you have an upconverting DVD player, it may have an HDMI jack. If so, use that instead of component and audio cables.

At this point, everything should be connected. Let’s power up.

Turn on the HDTV and cable box. It should work just as it did earlier. It shouldn’t matter if the VCR is on or off, or what it’s doing. Assuming everything works, let’s check the VCR. Select the HDTV input that you used to connect the VCR. Turn on the VCR. You should now see all of the analog channels. Use the VCR control to change channels. DO NOT USE THE HDTV’S CONTROL TO CHANGE CHANNELS. You are not using the HDTV’s tuner at all. In fact, unless you wish to pull in signals over the air (OTA), you won’t be using the HDTV’s tuner at all. Your VCR will not see any of the digital channels from the cable co.

To record a program on the VCR, simply program it with the time and channel you wish to record, just like you always have. You can then set it and forget it. Switch the HDTV input back to the cable box and watch whatever you like. It will not affect what the VCR is doing. To watch a recorded program, select the VCR’s input on the HDTV, pop the tape in the VCR, and enjoy.

To watch a DVD, select the DVD input on the HDTV and put a disk in the player. It won’t be truly HD, but it should still be breathtaking. Even a cheap DVD player should look good.

None of these cables are exotic or hard to get. All of them can be gotten at WalMart, Target, KMart, or whatever. The HDMI cables will be (by far) the most expensive. All of the others will be under twenty dollars, and most will be under ten dollars. Get the shortest cables possible to make the connections.

So, there you go.

It’s late and I need to head off to bed. Tomorrow, we can talk about how to record the digital channels on the VCR and how to include a home theater amp, if you’d like.

It should be pointed out that 99% of this can be avoided by using the cable co’s DVR. If your cable is offering you digital and HD, they very likely have a DVR. Ask them about it. Once you use it, you will NEVER, EVER want to use your VCR again. It will completely change how you watch television. Forever.

Oh, man, Drum God, you may be the only person in the world who knows what is up regarding this. Many thanks!

When I get back this afternoon, will follow your excellent advice.

Actually, right now everything is connected pretty much as you suggest. Incidently, I have no problem with the DVD player using component cables, it works fine. Furthermore, I never did expect to record HD channels on the VCR.

Just to improve things, I may change the VCR connections from composite to S-video, but will wait and see how it works.

It looks as though the connections were not as much of a problem as my not setting up properly to record and then change to watch TV from the cable box.

Of all the hours I wasted talking to “technical” support people at Sony and at Cox, not one of them had a clue as to what I should do. If even one had been as lucid as you are in explaining things, the problem would have been solved last week! (meanwhile, last night I took a tape into the bedroom to quickly and easily record a PBS program I wanted on my other setup that does not have a cable receiver).

Again, thanks! After following your suggestions, I’ll post back to note how it works.

Hey! I heard that!

I said pretty much exactly the same thing in post #10. But do I get any thanks? Nooooo! Humph!

(Just kidding. Good post, Drum God.)

You will see a major improvement using S-video cables instead of composite. Use them wherever you can.

Also, DO NOT buy component, HDMI, or DVI cables at your local big box store. Buy them online from the cheapest place you can find. And don’t buy “premium” or “precision” (e.g. Monster) analog audio/video cables from any source. You can usually get standard quality analog cables locally at reasonable prices, but IME, retailers usually price digital cables at least 100% over the best online sources.

“Precision” audio and video cables are the snake oil of our age. Don’t fall for it.

Yes, I saw that post #10 said essentially the same thing. I just wanted to lay things out in a bit more of a sequential manner. I’m glad that the OP has found my post useful. We can talk about connecting the line-in jack on the VCR to record digital channels, too, if necessary. Some of that will depend on how your cable box works.

I second the suggestion not to buy cables from big box stores. Especially stay away from the high-priced stuff. However, if you want the cables quickly, your local WalMart will have the stuff. I found HDMI cables for a very reasonable price at Fry’s in Austin.

Sorry 'bout 'dat, commasense, but by the time I read your post my head was reeling, and then Drum God did me a favor by sort of going step-by-step for dummies, which my befuddled brain was more able to grasp. :smiley:

Yeah, I know about the rip-off of cables, especially HDMI, which is ridiculous. One vendor (from which I did not buy the TV) when looking for a good buy tried to sell me a 12-foot HDMI for, sit down now, $250. The same online is available for around $12-$15. In any case, my cable box does not have a HDMI jack, so use component cables.

One question before I start hooking up according the the Gospel of Drum God and commasense: I follow everything. However, my initial setup had the composite cables coming from the cable receiver to the VCR-in, and then composite cables from VCR-out to the TV. Your suggestion is to use these from VCR to TV.

I assume I do **not **need the cable box to VCR cables as long as am using the coax cables, right?

My VCR is a relatively recent Sony stereo. One neat feature on it is a button to program it to record via its digital screen readout without having to turn on the TV. As long as I have it and it works fine, and for some other reasons too arcane to explain, I don’t want a DVR right now, although I can’t argue with your touting these as great. Maybe later.