But in post 13 Mike says his pipe doesn’t exit above the ground, like Philster’s does.
Sorry, I missed that. A tee to the surface may be the best idea yet (kind of the same idea, in a block diagram-ish sort of way.)
I was wrong about something. I just went out and looked to make sure and there actually is a little bit of exposed pipe where it comes out of the house to drain. I’ve been through different iterations of this and I thought that the last contractor made it all underground. It looks like that isn’t quite the case. There is a pipe that comes out of the wall with an elbow that runs down with pipe under the ground. So, there is maybe 6-10 inches (didn’t measure it) exposed right where it exits the house. That might give me some room to do something like the basement systems design above if I could find a piece like that or create something similar enough.
Otherwise it looks like a T somewhere out there is the best bet.
Thanks for all of the suggestions! I’ll be glad at some point to figure out what prevents me from having to watch the stupid gutter all of the time when it’s bitterly cold. I’m tired of being the only person out there as cars drive by, wondering why in the world I’m busting up ice and then hurling the big chunks up in the yard, which isn’t a pleasing aesthetic. Looks pretty bad out there in the middle of it all, and it really is a bummer when there’s snow on top as well.
In general it’s poor workmanship to have drain plumbing above ground in freeze country. So I’m disappointed your workmen did that.
How certain are you that the actual problem is down at the gutter versus you getting a frozen plug there where the pipe exits the house?
ISTM that Philster’s solution (posts 15 & 17) would be OK is areas that don’t hard freeze and have little actual sump drainage. If his system was installed where he did pump a lot of water out into serious cold, I’d expect the system to form an ice plug at that air gap pretty quickly.
It has never actually plugged and caused a problem before because I’ve been on top of it, though the ice did encroach upon the outlet a couple times last year and got to it a time or two. In both instances we didn’t have water to pump out so it was okay. But the water has always flowed through the pipe freely, it is just that I’m always out there making sure it can do so.
This is our third drainage iteration. The first was drilling a straight shot under our bedroom and out in the yard, which was a mess and noisy all night. Step to was out the basement but they used about 6 ninety degree angles which was ridiculous as it slowed the flow. So our current situation is the best yet. It was a general plumbing company that did the first two and our waterproofing company did their best to fix it by taking out most of the ninety degree turns.
Same sump setup here (live in Wisconsin)
Pump runs fairly often, so we ended up with a large ice flow in the street in front of the house and across the driveway entrance.
Then when the plows come out, the curb outlet is plugged solid until spring.
Fortunately, there is a short piece of flexible tubing that connects the house outflow pipe to the part buried under the yard (where Philster’s air gap is). So I just disconnect that and slip a length of drainage tube over the pipe and let it go in to the yard.
I see your concern, but these are legit ways to address the ice/freezing dilemma. There is no water in the outlet pipe to freeze. It is always clear. It should be good to even 40 below. The buried pipe drain will freeze with the ground. Frozen conditions? The water coming out of the house will hit the ground/grading and run away and freeze as it does.
In snow pack, the water will still get out fine.
Many sumps work year round and into freezing conditions by dumping out of the house… just into the grading. It works. The pipe underground ensures the expelled water moves away from the house when ground isn’t frozen. That is in play unless the ground is frozen. With frozen ground, surface water can be dumped near the house… because it won’t seep into the ground and work its way into the foundation again.
Just leave a good gap between the outlet and ground / underground pipe.
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I’m liking these ideas. Thanks to all, and Happy Thanksgiving to those of you that celebrate it.
This doesn’t help you but just for info; our sump pump has a Town-approved connection below the frost line to the municipal storm drain system.
This might help; I have redundant sump pumps; one goes to the town as above. The other has its own exit pipe going into my yard and away from the house. The secondary pump is in the same (oversized) crock as the first, but mounted on a brick so it is maybe 1 to 2 inches higher than the ‘primary’ pump.
That way, the secondary pump only kicks in if the town’s storm drain gets backed up (doesn’t happen so much anymore but it used to) or the primary pump outright fails - that did happen once.
I’ve never installed a battery backup system. All the backup systems I’ve seen have puny pumps; like 1/8th HP. My combined pumps get over 1HP. Also we have very reliable power here, and I still have a generator.
All things told we have a belt and suspenders and parachute system. But with a finished basement with rugs I still worry.
I’ve been through this. The solution is a below ground level outlet, but in a pinch you can pour salt into your sump hole daily. Eventually the salt will coat the sump hose and you’ll need less. Eventually it will also ruin your sump pump, but with models that use a lot of plastic it won’t be that bad. But it’s no long term solution.
Since the OP is looking for advice, let’s move this to IMHO.
Colibri
General Questions Moderator
RV Antifreeze instead of salt.
I didn’t want that getting pumped outside where animals might lick it up and die. It’s probably better for the sump pump though. If you have some place harmless for the stuff to go I’d say that’s a good idea.
From what I gather the RV antifreeze is pink in color. I’m also unsure how safe it would be to let it run into the storm drain even if it isn’t necessarily toxic. A neighbor across the street from the gutter in question is older and watches what goes on it the neighborhood. Her family works for the sewer/street departments. I can’t have a bunch of pink liquid out there drawing attention even if it is safe. Maybe I wouldn’t take enough to color the water though, I don’t know what the ratio would be.
If it truly wouldn’t hurt anything and wouldn’t draw attention the RV antifreeze could be the best option. Ultimately preventing freezing is better than giving an outlet for backflow after freezing occurs.
It’s harmless… and designed for flushing out boats and RV’s where the fluid will encounter the ecosystem.
I would just go with what I drew, as that is freeze proof and pretty standard.
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I like that idea, despite the adult nature of your original picture, lol.
What did you use to create the larger “funnel” effect at the top of the drain line to catch the water? I think that my pipes are all almost flush with the house so I’m not sure how big of a funnel I can put up there, especially if circular, but I could probably rig something that is more flat on one site and allows for expanded coverage on the other side. I’ve got an elbow coming out the back of the house from the pump leading to about 4 inches of exposed pipe that then goes under the ground.
You’re probably going to need to do more than just cut out a couple inch section. You may need to extend the pipe horizontally a few inches so the vertical section is away from the wall. That will also help keep any drainage water from freezing to the outside of the wall.
Here are funnel devices in 3 sizes. I’ve assumed the drain line is a standard 4" soil line. Similar devices are available for smaller pipe sizes though. Note the price goes up a bunch for the largest size.