Need some Dental Expert advice (or, is Aspen Dental Ripping us Off?)

Factual Questions
1

Okay, Before I post my wife’s little story below, A little background:

My Wife’s Medical Insurance went through a radical change, and we were forced to switch dentists. Why, on the whole, this change has not been bad as we are getting work done at a MUCH better cost, our choice of participating dentists is slim to none.

We Chose Aspen Dental.

For me, this was a great thing: I needed two crowns, and at the previous dentist, this was going to cost me about 700 per crown. AT Aspen, 200 per.

Sweet deal.

My wife has always had great looking teeth (mine are like some crazy monster baby teeth (Some Irish Heritage thinghy). What lies below is her story. I’ll put it in a quote box, and then I’ll add another two cents then leave it up to you, the masses to help us:

Now, my wife is no expert on teeth, so the claims that the other peoples teeth are “good” are her (and their) opines. I take an objective view towards this and am not taking sides (Which pisses the Mrs. to no end).

That said, How can a woman, who through all her other dentists was never told of periodontitis problems or possabilities, suddenly have “early to moderate periodontitis?”

Is Aspen Dental Ripping her off (As the DEEP cleaning is costing us 600 smackolas), or is periodontitis something that can sneak up on you and smack ya in the gums?

My quizzical eye towards all of this is ampped up by the fact that two other people at her job had the same experience.

But I wonder why they never said it to me. If anyone has got monster-mouth it is I.

TM’s… have at this… I would love to hear from some people in the dental field, and people who have been through this same expereince, if possible.

2

Several aspects of your story are setting off alarms for me. The scare tactics, the work that is done more cheaply than everywhere else, the fact that several people are getting the same story even though they never had problems before…

I’d check with the state licensing board and see if this practice has any complaints on file. I’d also talk to my insurance company and see what the story is, and I’d sure as hell get a second opinion before having any major dental work done. Cheap work isn’t cheap if you never needed to have it done in the first place.

3

Well, cheaper is because of the new insurance. the inital cost for the crowns was the same… the new insurance just offers heaploads more coverage than the old one. Didn’t mean to lead you down a path that wasn’t actually there. But Checking with the insurance and the State Licensing is a decent Idea. before Posting here, I did check the BBB, and found not one complaint. I also did a google, and found nothing. SO that’s why I came to where it matters most. :wink:

4

IANA Dentist. That said, I had a similar experience. My previous dentist (great guy, just 150 miles away now) thought my gums needed looking at. Nothing scarey, he just felt there was a bit more recession than he’s used to seeing in someone of my age and overall health. So, he referred me to a periodontist.

The periodontist poked and prodded my gums and ultimately announced that I needed tissue grafts in all four quadrants (upper right/left, lower right/left). This, he said, would be painful and unpleasant, since it would involve harvesting tissue from the roof of the mouth to apply to the gums. It would also cost a lot (an amount which his assistant assured me was “quite reasonable”) and need to be spread out over several visits. Overall, it was a hard sell approach. Did I mention he said I’d lose all my teeth if I didn’t have it done?

Followed up with my dentist, who’d been told a different story - they recommended grafts, but gave no dire warnings about tooth loss. The dentist assured me that overall, my mouth looked healthy, and he was happy to watch and wait.

A month or so later, I got a letter from the periodontist’s office reminding me of the dreadful consequences of failing to have this procedure done. Forwarded it to my dentist, reminded him of the apparent contradiction, and asked him to let me know what to do. Dentist called me, confused, and assured me that he hadn’t seen anything to panic about.

Fast forward to my current dentist and periodontist. Dentist says my mouth looks good and is satisfied to have the periodontist monitor things. Periodontist says my mouth looks good and is satisfied to trade off with the dentist as long as I keep getting my teeth cleaned.

The moral is: Yes, there are dentists out there who will overstate the case in order to increase billings (why should dentists be different from other professionals?). You may have encountered one of them. If you haven’t already had all this work done, get a second opinion NOW. If you get a wildly different opinion from the second dentist, get a THIRD opinion. Remember, you’re not shopping for the answer you *want * to hear, but you *are * looking for a consensus. If a particularly dire opinion is offered by only one of several professionals, it *may * be of questionable value.

5

Two months ago, I went to a dentist who also said I needed the deep cleaning. I also needed 10 crowns at 700 a piece. Mind you, none of my teeth hurt, and I’ve always brushed 2x a day and I floss daily.

I asked for stronger whitening solution. I had trays made 1 year ago. They tried to sell me 2 boxes of whitener and a tube of toothpaste in case I got sensitive. I asked the lady, “Why would I need all this if you’re going to cap 10 teeth, I only need whiten the front of 12 teeth? If my teeth become sensitive, can I just drop by and pick this up if needed?”. I could tell they were not too happy to pull out another 65 bucks out of my bag and send me on my way.

That day, I took my xrays and went to a second dentist. He said I needed a plain old cleaning (free) and yes, I had cracked teeth, but no need to fix unless they break or cause me pain. I asked if waiting until they broke would make it more expensive, he said no.

So one morning I was about 7,600 in dentist debt. By noon, my teeth were clean and was told, call me when one breaks or you have pain.

I can say that now, one tooth hurts even when I drink warm water. So, I’ll get one or two teeth crowned/capped and I bet I’ll be fine for some time.

If you get that feeling in your gut that they are out to take you for all the money they can, they probably are.

6

The lot sounds like a scam to me. Drop that dentist like a rock and see someone else.

I’ve been to two scam dentists before. One went so far as to say I needed 10-12 fillings. Said “thanks for letting me know” and left. A few weeks later I was in another dentist office and he said I needed one small filling (I didn’t tell him I was just at another dentist). Years later, and after seeing several different dentists, no one ever found those other cavities.

I have a mouthful of fillings from my first dentist. Every visit he’d give me a filling. Of course I was but a wee tot and couldn’t really argue. After that dentist retired I’ve only had three other fillings in my mouth over 25+ years. Both small (and one was a replacement). Makes one wonder a bit.

By the way,. what the hell is “deep cleaning” at a dentist? Isn’t a cleaning a cleaning? They remove buildup, polish and sometimes soak your teeth in gunk. What else would make it “deep”?

7

A deep cleaning or scaling is NOT your friend. Have had it done several times as I have icky gums. Pretty teeth but icky gums. They numb you and literally scrape under the gum as far as they can on the root of the tooth. This removes the build-up (plaque) which can cause the gums to separate from the teeth. Also had the grafts done, what a bunch of crap, will never see that periodontist again. I really felt taken advantage of, what with a $3K bill for surgery that did ABSOLUTELY nothing except hurt. Current dentist couldn’t even tell I had work done. Periodontist even said procedure might not solve the problem, but he sure pushed for it and, I was young and stupid so…thank Og insurance ponied up MOST of the cost. Still ended up paying like $1200. Ugh!

Be wary of periodontists…I don’t trust 'em a bit.

8

Okay. So now, we’ve heard form the regular joe’s… are there any dentists or periodtists out there that wish to explain how we are to tell this is a proper thing to do and NOT A SCAM?

9

Well, out of everything else here, this one’s actually pretty normal. I have a mouth full of fillings, and every one of 'em’s from the 70’s and very, very early 80’s when I was a kid.

10

Same here, every flat tooth in my mouth was filled with a filling when I was about 13, makes me wonder now. This is around 1979.

11

When I was a teenager, I worked for a dental office. As part-time staff I rarely attended staff meetings, with one notable exception.

During the meeting, the dental staff was reminded that they needed to sell higher costing procedures. Specifically, the hygenists were told to push deep-cleanings for that month, to up the revenue.

Of course, this is also the office that mandated that all employees pay for & attend an EST-like program whose name I have successfully repressed. (I never went… each time the manager brought it up I reminded her that I was not informed of that policy before I was hired. Nyah.) After working there, I’m much more aware of what I need to know about a dentist before I’ll see him.

Basically, find another dentist within your insurance program if at all possible.

12

A similar thing happened with me. I never had any cavities as a kid. I switched dentists when I went off to college and every time I was there, he found a small cavity and drilled it (without novacaine – though that was my choice). The last time I saw him, he said there was another small cavity in one of my lower incisors and he’d get it the next time.

It’s been thirty years. Not only haven’t I had another cavity, but no one has ever discovered the one he noticed. Right now, I just had to have a root canal because one of the unnecessary fillings cracked and got infected.

Back to the OP – if there’s any way to get a second opinion, do it.

13

Get the second opinion, like everyone already said.

But- I have gum disease, and went from no problem noticed by the dentist to needing deep cleaning within about two years. I didn’t have any symptoms at the beginning. I just went from 2 cleanings a year to 4. By the time I got to the point where gum surgery was an option, my teeth were moving slightly- but they looked fine,except for that tiny space between the two front ones that wasn’t there before. I had the surgery on one quadrant, and decided the pain wasn’t worth it, especially since there was no guarantee I would keep my teeth longer if I had it. Got my first partial denture a couple of years later, and now the only teeth I have left are those in the quadrant where I had the surgery. It got to the point where my teeth were so loose that having them pulled was less painful than having them cleaned.(and a couple just fell out on their own). It took a long time to go from my dentist first noticing signs to losing nearly all of my teeth (about 14 years) and I kind of wish I had had the surgery done in all four quadrants, because then I might not have needed a partial denture at 33

14

I wound up with periodontal disease when I was in my late 20’s (due to poverty I hadn’t been to a dentist in over seven years). But my gums were swollen, they did bleed… I stopped eating apples because I don’t think blood goes good with them. And yes, I have some gum recession. I could tell I had a problem. I required numbing just to do a normal cleaning. I had the scaling done. In my case it helped a lot, but yes, it did hurt. The point is, if you’ve got gum disease the symptoms are there. Anyhow, in my case the work was necessary and it really did help. I now have healthy gums. I caught it before my teeth started shifting and all that other nasty stuff.

Anyhow, some years we moved to another state. The new dentist starts pushing the hardsell - omigosh! You have periodontal disease! Push-push-push on the dire warnings, expensive procedures, mouthwashes, special cleaning appliances… I said I had problems, they’re under control now. No-no-no! they said - you’re in dire danger! Tried to tell me my teeth were moving and loose. Um… no, definitely not.

Also started howling about getting my wisdom teeth removed, how they were crowding my teeth, festering pockets of decay, etc. etc. Maybe it’s just a touch of Neanderthal or something, but my wisdom teeth came in straight, never crowded anything (Not only are my teeth straight, I still have some small gaps between them - I have a huge mouth) and yes, I can and do keep them clean.

Got a second opinion. Gum problems under control/in remission. Teeth solid as rocks. No need for more than a cleaning.

There are scam artists out there.

Don’t get the gum work done unless you get a second opinion. It’s expensive and painful. You don’t want to do this unless you really need it.

15

I once read that dentists have a fairly high suicide rate.

16

Well, it’s a slight tangent, but the reason Dentist Suicides is so high is that they are, for the most part, seeing people who let the decay and pain get so bad that they were forced to go to him/her else they faint from anguish. And also, people know that dentist = pain, so people hate him/her before even seeing them.

It’s gotta be a tough job where nobody loves you and when you’re looking into horribly depraved mouths of people so hurting, and so not having the money to pay for the huge amounts of work that they need…

That said, they’re getting no sympathy from me if they’re rooking my wife with this periodontal crapola.

As it is, I called our previous dentist, and they looked at my wife’s perio-chart for 2004 and 2003 and said they saw no indication of perio-problems, though there COULD be. My old dentist asked for the perio-chart from Aspen Dental, which I am bringing to them Monday.

I also called our local TV station that does the “investigative reports”, and they’re interested in the story and want to hear from me again once my old dentist offers his opine.

So… Still have yet to hear from an actual dentist on this, though I thank Vissa for her dental-worker story.

17

Any idea what your periodontal depth readings were? I can get a general, non-legally-binding opinion. I know the last time they did my exam, I was proud of all of the 4’s and 5’s I heard the doctor calling out. It was afterwards, though, that my dentist-wife told me we bad, bad readings. :frowning: