This has been bugging me since I re-watched Top Gun out of sheer boredom while the Starz channels were showing it every two hours for the last month. Maybe someone can suggest a logical reason for the following, which has become the one flaw in the movie that annoys me more than any other.
After the “climactic” dogfight (the one where Tom Cruise fires the same AIM-9 Sidewinder five times - don’t even get me started about that…) against the “MiG 32’s”:rolleyes:, Maverick and Iceman (who is flying on one engine, BTW) request permission for a high-speed flyby of the carrier. The response is, “Negative, Ghostrider, the pattern is full…” so they buzz the ship anyway.
Now, one of the points that was driven home during the dogfight is that once Iceman’s wingman (Hollywood and Wolfman) has been shot down, Maverick’s is the only other plane in the air, and “both catapults” are broken (on a ship with three catapults IRL…) so no other fighters can launch. A CH-53 helicopter is dispatched to rescue the unfortunate F-14 crew who were shot down.
So, we have the following aircraft in the air when the close pass is requested: Two F-14’s returning from the engagement (Maverick/Merlin and Iceman/Slider), and one helicopter which has just broken all applicable speed records after rescuing Hollywood and Wolfman in order to arrive back at the ship as the fighters land.
What, exactly, is the pattern full of?
For that matter, what is the likelihood of more than one catapult breaking at the same time on the Enterprise? (I know it’s the Enterprise from the cap the Captain wears with “USS Enterprise CVN-65” embroidered on it…) I’m thinking that multiple simultaneous breakdowns of launch and recovery equipment is so rare as to be unheard of in the US Navy…but then again so are most of the situations and actions in this movie…
My guess is that’s a stock answer from the airboss when he doesn’t want somebody buzzing the tower.
It’s been a while since I’ve seen the movie, but wouldn’t there also be a combat air patrol orbiting the carrier at all times? Especially since hostilities are taking place not too far away.
You’d have to suspend a LOT of disbelief in scenes like this. The airboss can’t even be bothered to look up to identify who is making the request, thus the generic “ghost rider” name. He just doesn’t want anyone buzzing the ship. Plus I though there were 4 catapults on modern CVN’s, two on the main flight deck and two on the angled deck. As for not knowing how many “MiG 32’s” they were up against: they had the carrier’s RADAR; the F-14 Tomcat’s RADAR; the escort ship’s RADARs; and an E-2 Hawkeye’s RADAR all looking around and NONE could count how many enemy planes were in play?
MiG-28, MiG-32…still bogus. And they were still F-5’s painted black.
Apparently, in Top Gun reality, the only aircraft the US Navy flies are F-14 Tomcats, CH-53 Sea Stallions, and A-4 Skyhawks in the Aggressor squadrons. No E-2 Hawkeyes, no F-18s, no A-6’s, and apparently the carrier operates without a Carrier Battle Group, too.
MiG-28, MiG-32…still bogus. And they were still F-5’s painted black.
Apparently, in Top Gun reality, the only aircraft the US Navy flies are F-14 Tomcats, CH-53 Sea Stallions, and A-4 Skyhawks in the Aggressor squadrons. No E-2 Hawkeyes, no F-18s, no A-6’s, and apparently the carrier operates without a Carrier Battle Group, too.
Yeah … how inconsiderate that the USSR wouldn’t loan us any real MiGs for a movie back in the mid-80s. Those jerks.
The other stuff you mention wasn’t shown because it didn’t advance the storyline. Besides, I bet the US Navy was sorta antsy about showing off the most advanced planes and such. The moviemakers probably had to go with what the Navy allowed them to show/use.
I’m not saying that the producers should’ve gotten real MiGs…just that they should’ve used something relatively exotic to represent an actual MiG model, or just not identified the bandits rather than inventing a non-existant MiG variant. If they had used, say, a SAAB Viggen or a IAI Kfir and only identified it as a bandit, I’d find it much less annoying. Those F-5’s they used are privately owned - I know of at least two privately owned Viggens in the USA (one was used in the Nicolas Cage/Tommy Lee Jones helicopter movie Firebirds) and a little careful editing and model work (which the producers of Top Gun used extensively anyway) could’ve filled the sky with 'em.
The other stuff I mention is just attention to detail and resemblance to reality - there would have been an E-2 on station (especially if this crisis was 24 hours old, as stated in the movie), and combat air patrols would’ve been conducted. Vietnam-era A-6’s were hardly “the most advanced planes”, and F-18’s were pretty high-profile at the time, having been chosen as the new Blue Angels aircraft around this time.
I’m not wishing for a 100% accurate portrayal of a Naval engagement, but it would be nice if some passing nods to the real world (and continuity) had happened. This brings us back to the root of my rant: if you’re gonna declare that “the pattern is full”, then don’t state elsewhere in the movie that the guys you’re using that excuse on are the only aircraft in the sky at the time! Where’s the continuity?
What always got me about that dogfight (besides the “pattern is full” bullshit - that annoyed me too, kilt) is that Maverick’s considered the hero and the hot shot pilot. Hell, Iceman managed to keep somewhere in the neighborhood of 35,000 (more or less) MiGs in close pursuit from getting a clean shot on him for the (roughly) 5 hours it took Maverick to wrestle with his demons and get back into the fight.
One thing that always bother me about this movie happened in the beginning. YOu’ve got Maverick & the Cougar sent off for a patrol. They encounter a couple of other planes, fly around a bit. Mav scares them off, and they head back to the ship.
and they’re ‘way low on gas’?
what, are these things good for a 20 minute air time? (even allowing for movie editing).
From personal experience the pattern is always full around a tower or for a low altitude high speed pass over a base even . Which is why when they are at Topgun the boss says the exact same thing without even bother looking up from his coffee. Back around the time the movie took place you could possibly get away with this most likely you would be grounded for a month maybe loose some money be put on restrictions but people would still do it and you were better off asking for permission and saying you already committed or you did not hear the reply in time or you did not hear the reply at all but if you just plain don’t ask for permission you always would’ve gotten the worst possible. Also at the beginning of the movie the were almost at the end of there patrol when they had their encounter with the “migs” so running low on fuel is not unbelievable and a midair refueling would have been possible but the closest base would have been Turkey and to get a stratotanker airborne and to them most definitely would’ve taken longer than they had.
Ghost Rider is supposed to be his squadron name. In the initial hubbub with Cougar… Cougar identifies himself as “Ghostrider 117”. When Maverick requests the first fly by he identifies himself as “Ghostrider”. The second time, he says Maverick… so I’m not sure why they answer with “Ghostrider” except that its clearly the same ship as the initial scene, so probably the same squadron/name.
I can handle using F-5s to stand in for MiGs, but why are they painted gloss black? Apparently the Soviet Union has not discovered the benefits of camouflage; they want their planes to stand out as Teh Evil.
There’s also Maverick and Goose’s first flight at Top Gun. They engage with Jester and are shown just a couple hundred feet off the ground, even flying between some small buttes. (The whole sequence is here.) Then they chase Jester up to a higher altitude and back down, and get in trouble for flying below the safe altitude for the exercise (10,000’, if memory serves). So if it was unsafe to drop below that altitude, what was all that shit at the beginning?