Nero = 666

What’s with all this Nero = 666 nonsense?

I am perfectly OK with the fact Hebrew letters = numbers, therefore Caeser Nero = 666 (although I have not validated this as being true)

But whether or not above is true, so? It seems like another one of those coincidences like the Lewis Carrol Jaberwocky thing (http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a970307a.html)

What are the arguments that this find has any signifigance? I’m assuming there is probably a tie of the whole Rome burning thing to some fire & brimstone in Revelations.

:dubious: ,
The MeatBeast

Asimov’s Guide to the Bible:

From the Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Number_of_the_Beast_(numerology)):

Plus, other sources have it as 616. Whatever that would mean.

Well, in themiddle of the post above yours …

Which seems suggestive that Nero’s name really is the source. Two different ways of transliterating his name into Hebrew give two different numeric totals-which are both found in different versions of Revelations. Seems like quite a coincidence if Nero wasn’t the Beast, doesn’t it? But then again, it looks like those were both alternate spellings …

Whew!

That makes me glad the phone company changed our area code from 616 to 269 a copule years back.
:smiley:

Nitpick: The book is Revelation, no “s”.

For the love of Pete, BrainGlutton, can you just provide a freaking link? Wikipedia has very specific regulations on the use of their text, and simply posting it here doesn’t meet them. Copying and pasting text from Wikipedia into a bunch of threads isn’t any more helpful that providing a link.

Thanks for all the info so far, guys. But I was really hoping for more of an insight of what signifigance these facts hold. So far the only one that really comes close is Walloons post quote from Asimov.

Maybe the OP was a little misleading. I was more looking for the modern philosophy of the signifigance of Neron (if any) = 666. Are there any religious groups that take this seriously?

Now wait a minute, my biblio says “six hundred, threescore and six”

Snort

I doubt it. Nero is dead and the Apocalypse hasn’t come yet. Some do try to pin the Antichrist label on this or that contemporary figure (“Ronald Wilson Reagan” – 6 letters in each name!) but that’s been going on since the time of St. John. I read once that during the Reformation, Catholics found ways to get Martin Luther’s name to add up to 666 and Protestants returned the favor with regard to several popes. You could probably do it with almost any name if you were creative enough, choosing the numerical values of Roman, Greek, or Hebrew letters as convenient, and doing the right arithmetical operations on them.

[Nitpick]It’s pretty clearly cheating to do ‘choose the numerical values as convenient’ with Greek or Hebrew letters, all of which already have numbers assigned by the Greek and Hebrew number systems of the time of the Revelation. And it would be odd to do it with Roman letters in Latin, as the Roman number system also represented numbers with letters, although there were letters not used in the number system … To put it simply, if you are doing your gematria on a Roman name in Latin, and you assign some number other than 50 to the letter L, you look pretty stupid.
[/nitpick]

The idea is that 666 is supposed to be the name of a person who will bring the Apocalypse, or perhaps some attribute of that person. A recent book (The Bible Code) claims that the entire Hebrew Bible is a code; the hypothesis relies on numerology and a lot of computer power.

I don’t believe any of it. I don’t believe in the message of Revelation, so I don’t worry about 666 or who (or what) it’s supposed to mean. But the “idea” is that 666 represents the Beast/Antichrist/person/thing that’s supposed to bring the end of the world. Convenient explanation for a time of turmoil, when ordinary people were longing for hope.

I would like to add that prevailing Jewish thought (at least what I was taught) is that the Anointed One will come when humans have made a world suitable for him/her. For the same reason, we are supposed to follow the commandments and make ourselves holy so that G-d will dwell among us. It’s a positive lesson. No apocalypse required.

BTW, in Hebrew, anointed one is moshiach. This yielded Messiah. In Greek, anointed one is christus. This yields, well… Why Anointed One? The Hebrew king was supposed to have holy oil poured over his head, a sort of holy make-over. Ancient warriors covered themselves in oil to make their skin shine in the sun.

Final piece of ephemeris: British royalty are still literally anointed during their coronation. If QE2 doesn’t keel over soon, most of us will miss the kinging of Charley BigEars.

There is some controversy about the veracity of St. John the Divine. The popes said “Yea” but some biblical scholars said, “Rye Ergot poisoning!.”

One of my favorite recreactions is taking biblical texts and comparing them to what I have chosen as my religious foundation: the synoptic gospels.

There’s a lot of stuff that contradicts the synoptics, and some weird stuff that confirms them. It’s my ‘touch point,’ if you will. John is way out there in comparison.

For quite a while I bought into the 666 stuff, and finally decided that this is one of those texts that perhaps should have remained ‘hidden,’ while stuff like the Qumrun community and Dead Sea Scrolls would be better replacements.

Eventually the Truth will out, but trying to figure out when from contradictory biblical texts ain’t gonna tell us when.

Sssssss

(shit, how can you even trust what a snake says on this stuff anyway?)

You think? Revelation doesn’t specify any particular system for calculating the NOTB. I might decide to let “C” represent 100, because that’s its traditional value as a Roman numeral; or 3, because it’s the third letter of the alphabet; or even 24, if I start at Z and count backwards. Or, if I can’t make a given name spelled in Roman letters add up to 666 no matter how hard I try, I might transliterate it into Greek or Hebrew – and any name or word miight be transliterated from one alphabet to another in several different ways – and repeat the process until I reach the desired result. And if I can’t get 666 by just adding up the values of the letters, I might decide to subtract or to multiply or treat one as an exponent of the other . . .

I thought we were working under the (fairly logical) assumption that the writer had someone in particular in mind, and was using a simple code to obfuscate their identity in a milieux of extreme persecution of Christians. If he included a ‘key’, anybody reading it would know of whom he was speaking, including the ‘wrong’ people. But it needed to be simple and obvious enough that his intended readership could easily break the code.

Given that Hebrew and Greek letters (and some Roman letters) have numeric values already assigned, using those values would be very natural. Also, the invention of the concept of arbitrary ciphers was far in the future. A writer of that era would have been using some variant of established rules of gematria. If we knew what all of those rules were, it would probably be a lot easier to decipher the Revelation; but it’s pretty obvious that St. John wasn’t assigning the number 24 to C by counting backwards from Z, since he neither used our A-Z alphabet nor had cultural exposure to the idea of making arbitrary assignments of numbers to letters …

I understand that perfectly. I also understand that St. John was alluding to some figure of his own time, most likely Nero, maybe Domitian. I was trying to shed light on the thinking of the many persons of later centuries who have tried to identify this or that figure of their own time as the Beast, and who have been very creative in their attempts to come up with 666. Yes, that’s “cheating,” but if the Beast really means Nero or Domitian, the whole exercise is mistaken at the outset, isn’t it? Either you accept that Revelation is a set of prophecies about events in our own present or future (rather than in the time of the early Roman Empire), or you don’t.