Let’s assume for the moment that all interactions between the Trump campaign and Russia were not criminal. In that case, how would you expect them to act?
Cooperatively.
By not trying everything in their power to stop the investigation, especially not firing the director of the organization running the investigation, and admitting that he did it because of the investigation. If all communications between the Trump campaign and Russia were above board, then why has there been so much lying about it from multiple parties? The only reason to not see this for what it is is partisanship.
Or as The Tooth said, cooperatively.
Look at the Benghazi investigation. The first thing that happened was that the Obama Administration appointed an independent panel, led by genuine statesmen, to get to the bottom of what went wrong.
If Trump had immediately appointed a commission like that – led by types like Colin Powell or Madelyn Albright – I bet you there wouldn’t be so many congressional committees falling all over themselves to investigate the scandal.
But if there’s nothing there then the FBI’s investigation is a waste of resources and a distraction for the administration.
History has shown us that this isn’t always the best idea. Clinton didn’t squelch the Whitewater investigation, despite there being nothing there, and it ended up crippling his presidency.
What independent panel are you referring to? (Or is this a joke?)
I think he’s referring to the State dept review board. Even if it wasn’t intended as a joke, it’s certainly a laughable statement.
It’s impossible for him to know if there’s anything there. Even if he is innocent, it’s impossible for him to know if everyone else in his campaign is, so interfering with the investigation would still be obstruction. And let’s not forget, this is not an investigation of Trump or his campaign, it’s an investigation of Russia’s actions during the election. That’s something that clearly happened and an investigation that clearly isn’t over, so interfering with that is still obstruction.
We’ve already had the investigation into Russian interference in the election. The conclusion was that they interfered to help Trump get elected and possibly other reasons. It’s hard to imagine anything new coming out of that at this point.
The Accountability Review Board led by Thomas Pickering and retired Chairman of the Joint Chiefs, Admiral Mike Mullen.
Why did you think it was a joke? Maybe Fox News never covered the issue?
Whitewater was a tempest in a teapot for the Clintons. The things that crippled Clinton’s presidency (at least the latter half of his second term) were his own misconduct in lying/dissembling in a civil deposition and the fact that there was a standing Office of the Independent Counsel whose sole purpose was to investigate nearly every lead it received about potential misconduct among senior members of the Executive Branch and presidential campaigns.
That was an intelligence report. The FBI investigation is still a wide ranging counter intelligence investigation covering what they did and how they did it, money connections, the hacks and fake news, and probably a lot of stuff we don’t know about. They just happen to touch on Trump and associates too, but that’s not all the investigation is about.
A friend of mine is quite happy with Trump, and when the independent prosecutor was appointed, what he said was “if there was something with Russia, it would have come out by now.”
Treis - as Fubaya pointed out above, there was a report. The investigation is still on-going. There is a hella lotta smoke, a god awful amount of self proclaimed innocence, and what appears to be hamhanded attempts to shut down getting to a conclusion. Let there be a real investigation and public airing of the findings, and then and only then can we conclude if there is something “new”.
Flynn was and I think is a complete dumbass even though to become a general one cannot be stupid nor without political savvy. He was ignorant enough to believe he could phone the Russian ambassador and not realize it was recorded by the intelligence agencies tasked with keeping America safe. Trump is too ignorant to conceive that his “private” conversations with intelligence leaders were not followed up with memo’s that are admitable evidence. Not to mention, Trump implies he bugged the conversations without considering that maybe the intelligence agency leads also made their own tapes (as did the Russians in their meeting). For the intelligence agency leaders, this ain’t their first rodeo and they know haw to CYA.
Whilst I am ranting, I do think most people have a “price” even though I expect higher standards for the leaders of our country. That said, Flynn’s “price” was laughably low. Not even a million dollars for all of his “consulting” and “speechifying to Vlad”, much less fuck you money.
There has been a real investigation. The CIA and FBI have been investigating since at least July. They released a report to the public back in December detailing Russian interference in the election. For the most part we know what they did, who did it, and what they were trying to accomplish.
Since then there has been a lot of smoke, but it has been mostly smoke. I mean let’s think about it. Russian interference has been on the intelligence and law enforcement community’s radar since at least July. In order for Trump to collude with the Russians and not get caught they would have had to been very sophisticated. What we’ve seen from the Trump administration is that they seemingly can hardly do anything right. How could this bumbling group of people manage to evade the CIA and FBI? You said it yourself:
How does this level of incompetence collude with Russia without getting caught?
I doubt the FBI/CIA know all of the actual names of the Russian hackers, their associates, or the actual names of any intermediaries they used, particularly with Wikileaks. Without that information, it would not be possible to immediately identify whether Trump’s associates had talked with them, even on the calls/contacts/messages that the FBI/CIA already know about.
Also, colluding covers a whole spectrum of communications. In this case, it almost certainly doesn’t cover anything dealing with the actual hack itself, but it could be as something as seemingly innocuous as a Trump associates’ knowledge that they are speaking to someone who has unreleased information from the hack and that Trump associate suggesting the release of certain information or suggesting a possible date on which any information could be released/given to Wikileaks. Or it could be an inquiry by a Trump associate with someone who has unreleased information and asking if they have particular information and if they have a price.
My RCC, pre-VII, upbringing makes me less-tolerant of dumb-fucks. As they tried to deflect my ire, while they continued to make me to blame. I continue to suggest the Norskies, but for the Swedes I’d accept it.
Absolutely amateurish.
I’m a Chicagoan and am always disappointed when a home-town boy discounts his vigorish like that.
But there are many, many questions that an independent investigation can address that intelligence reports, no matter how detailed and accurate they may be, simply cannot.
For example:
- Was someone asleep at the switch and therefore allowed Russia’s activities to go unchecked? Maybe the DNC, Clinton, Trump, Obama, DHS, Microsoft, someone else?
- What should we do to make things like this harder to do? The 9/11 Commission directly resulted in a whole new cabinet department and a new intelligence agency being established… so maybe that wasn’t the smartest thing, but sometimes it takes a commission to get change going.
- What should we do in retaliation? Obama implemented some “first step” sort of sanctions, but Trump has done literally nothing, sending the signal that Russia can continue to do this sort of stuff over and over and over without any fear.
- Is there more that the public really ought to know about the general situation – as opposed to any potential crimes by Flynn etc – that the intelligence reports did not reveal?
- And, perhaps most importantly, maybe the commission could assess whether the interference actually changed the outcome of the election. For the record, I am really not sure either way on the question.
The reason Trump hasn’t done anything is clearly that he doesn’t want any discussion of the above points. The answers might hurt his special snowflake feelings.
This is a standard right wing talking point, and for a reason; while nonsensical, it sounds convincing to people who aren’t really paying attention.
Criminal investigations take a very, very long time, and this one just started, and it’s a VERY complex case. The Russia investigation, from the perspective of the FBI and DOJ, is in the early stages of what promises to be an incredibly difficult and complicated job. I doubt Mueller has even hired all his staff yet. Your claims of “we know what happened” are simply not true; again, you are referring to the observation that the government of Russia engaged in underhanded tactics to sway the results of the election. Hell, man, I knew that last year, that’s not news; they just confirmed it. What this is now about is actually different; whether there was collusion between Trump and/or his agents and the Russian government.
Imagine two cops are called to a bank alarm and, walking in, see that someone has cracked open the safe. One cop says “Hmm, we’d better investigate what might have been taken; we need to have the bank do a full count and see what was stolen, if anything. We also need to bring in the lab guys to check for evidence. Let’s put some feelers out to see if any of our informants know about anyone who’s been planning a job…” and the the second cop says “But the vault is cracked open so we know what happened. If someone had taken any money we’d know who it was by now.”
You’re the second cop.
If Robert Mueller can complete a full investigation of the connections between Trump’s agents and the Russian government in less than 18 months, I would be impressed as hell. That would be lightning fast.
If there was nothing else to find, then there was no reason for Trump to try an stop the investigation, which he admitted he did. There clearly is stuff to find, and there clearly is stuff that will hurt Trump.
It doesn’t have to have been done by Trump himself. He’s still trying to cover up something. Otherwise it would be in his best interest not to try and stop anything.
A guy can’t be as crooked a businessman as he is without understanding how to look innocent. That he’s not doing it is telling.
Edit: though RickJay’s point is better than mine.
Because had there been an investigation of the sort you were describing I assumed I would have heard of it. So I thought you were possibly being sarcastic or something. You painted a distorted picture of what this panel was and did, which made it hard to recognize since you didn’t specify it by name.
Firstly, your language “Look at the Benghazi investigation. The first thing that happened was that the Obama Administration appointed an independent panel …” implies that the Obama administration took some sort of proactive role and was upfront about it. In reality, the Accountability Review Board was mandated by law due to the loss of life at a government mission.
Further, it was of shaky independence, since most of the members and staff were selected by the State Department itself, and it coordinated the investigation with the State Department.
In addition, as I understand it, the scope of the investigation - again, due to the law which mandated its creation - was limited to the security details at the facility, and did not delve into the broader issues, for which reason they did not interview Clinton and other State Department bigwigs.
I imagine if the Trump administration created an independent commission with the level of independence and narrow scope of this one, you and others would not be mollified.
Which is not to fault the Obama Administration either. To my knowledge the law does not require an independent free-ranging investigation. It’s more like an internal “find out what went wrong and correct it” response to a mishap investigation, rather than the “root out the Bad Guys” type of investigation that is being contemplated and demanded here. But it’s not at all the same type of investigation being contemplated (and demanded) here.