New cars come without spare tire? WTF?!

[Throatwarbler_Mangrove]

If it makes you feel any better, I have had to render these units harmless prior to disposal. I have held them in my hands, and deployed the pyrotechnics.

Well, this thread does make me wish I had bought a Volvo…

[garygnu]

@Drum God

…That “rollover monitoring system” on high-end convertibles sure seems like a bit much. I would think that there would be all sorts of ways that that wouldn’t work. What if there were something in the way of the rollbars from deploying? The car’s designer cannot possibly know what is causing the car to roll over. The balance of the car would change in a standard T-bone crash, too. Would the rollbars deploy then, even when the car isn’t rolling? I would want to see such a system. The airbags in my car make me feel like I’m driving around with a loaded gun pointed at my face. Now I’ve got to worry that the roof is going to explode? What if the car is rolling over and I raise my hands in an “OH MY GOSH!” sort of pose and my hand gets cut off by the rapidly deploying rollbar? :eek:

They usually deploy just behind the headrest. It’s better than using your head as a rollbar. You can see one version on this Lamborghini. I heard one story of a Mercedes owner trying to drive on a freeway exit shoulder to get around concert traffic, only to have the tilt sensors go off and the roll-bars deployed.

ETA: I think I missed a few posts, sorry.

[KCB615]

Rick:

Thankfully, the class was free (and not that good, might I add). Really, all of us left the class with a horrified look on our faces and resolved ourselves never to cut open a car manufactured after 1980. Told us “this is how the car is going to hurt you” but not how to stop it from doing so. Thanks.

The instructor had said that the wheel-in-the-air/car-in-free-flight sensor would be activated by a novice tire-changer who didn’t know to tell the car to calm down (or remove the key, apparently). It was a warning to us to be careful during stabilization, one method being to crib the car and remove the tire stems, setting the car down on the cribbing. The big concern was that our folks would be working above the ROPS, and would have it activate into a firefighter or launch a patient who had been boarded and was being removed from the back.

Like you said, remove the key, and most of the problems go away. Except for the transponder keys that work in proximity of the car. And the backfeed of power from accessory batteries (cell phones being charged). And large stereos. And multi-stage airbags.

You know, now that I think about this again, I’m not cutting into any car built after 1980.

[Darth_Sensitive]

@Rick

Which puts your Toyota in the same class as the cars that don’t have a spare. Actually worse. You might think you have a spare, when in fact it is flat, and you don’t have a factory supplied pump, like the cars that don’t come with a spare have, either.

A flat spare is right up there with a bird cage full of bat manure as one of the most useless things ever.

Well, I know the car has a (non factory installed) mini air pump. And getting the spare replaced is on my Dad’s list of things to do. I should probably shoot him a reminder, just in case he has forgotten.

[Drum_God]

@Rick

Drum God you might want to consider a switch to decaf. Seriously, you are worried about the roll bars in a car you don’t even own?
For your information, the bars basically work on three deployment criteria. roll more than 45 degrees, pitch more than 72 degrees or free flight the car. (drive off a cliff)
The bars are located above and behind the rear seat. It is highly doubtful that you could get your arms there even if you tried. Look here click on the thumbnail in the lower left corner. See the cover marked ROPS? That is the cover over the roll bar.
About your t-bone accident. Yes the bars might go off in a t-bone accident. What is your point?Ah, dude, he does not need to know why the car is going over, only the fact that it is. In the automotive world upside down = bad. After almost 40 years in the car business I cannot think of any case where upside down = good. Upside down is always bad. Upside down with no roll bar is worse. This is because medical studies have shown that your head is not designed to support a 3500 lb car.

I teach middle school for a living. I’m not tense from caffeine. You spend your days with a bunch of twelve and thirteen year-olds and see how you do. (I love my job, by the way.)

Are there situations where the ROPS’s deployment could make a situation worse? How does the ROPS deal with obstructions in its path? As KCB615 mentioned, that might not be very healthy for a firefighter.

Hey, I’m not worrying about a car I don’t own. I’m worrying about my wealthier friends. Who’s looking out for the rich folks???

[Rick]

@KCB615

Rick:

Thankfully, the class was free (and not that good, might I add). Really, all of us left the class with a horrified look on our faces and resolved ourselves never to cut open a car manufactured after 1980. Told us “this is how the car is going to hurt you” but not how to stop it from doing so. Thanks.

The instructor had said that the wheel-in-the-air/car-in-free-flight sensor would be activated by a novice tire-changer who didn’t know to tell the car to calm down (or remove the key, apparently). It was a warning to us to be careful during stabilization, one method being to crib the car and remove the tire stems, setting the car down on the cribbing. The big concern was that our folks would be working above the ROPS, and would have it activate into a firefighter or launch a patient who had been boarded and was being removed from the back.

Like you said, remove the key, and most of the problems go away. Except for the transponder keys that work in proximity of the car. And the backfeed of power from accessory batteries (cell phones being charged). And large stereos. And multi-stage airbags.

You know, now that I think about this again, I’m not cutting into any car built after 1980.

:eek: Yikes. Geez would your department like some one that knows their ass from third base come give a presentation? I can be bought. (yes I have done these all over the west Coast from Orange County to Oregon)
OK, just cause this is info you need to know. The rops deploys with a spring. You can hold the bar in place against the spring force with your hand. There are two dangers in doing an extraction in a ROPS car.

1. You might have your head 8-10 inches above the bar, and it deploys. The running start could easily cold cock you or break your jaw. The solution here is to put something heavy over the bars so they won’t can’t spring up with force, or don’t allow your head to be directly over the bars and within about 15" or so.
2. The ROPS deploys and the guys working on the car all have to stop and change their shorts. These things are loud and will scare the shit out of you the first time you hear them. You are on your own to devise a defense for this problem.
   To the best of my knowledge, all of these systems are dead as soon as the key goes off. Even a car with a transponder type key can be turned off while the transponder is in the car. Even if you can’t figure out how to turn it off, disconnecting the battery (always a good idea if you car cutting the car) will render the system safe after no more than 30 seconds.
   When we got ROPS equipped cars we tried in class to set these suckers off by accident. Jack on corner up as high as it would go and drop the floor jack? Nothing. Bounce up and down on the bumper? Nope. Believe me you are in much greater danger from undeployed air bags*, and side curtains than you are from roll bars.
   Seriously, if you or your department needs more info on this stuff, feel free to drop me an e mail, it’s in my profile.

Drum God won’t somebody think of the rich people?
Obstructions? It stops or moves them out of the way. We used to see how far it would toss an empty Coke can in class. In the new C70 (linked in previous post) if the top is up, the bars do punch though the window. On the older C70 the window is more vertical, and the bars go up inside the car.
Anytime it could make matters worse? none that I can think of assuming you are in the seat and have your belt on when it deploys. The only down side is if there is a deployment in a non roll over crash, somebody’s insurance company may be out some extra money. (some systems are resettable, others are not.)

*this applies to the danger faced by a fire department member doing an extraction, not the driver / passenger of the car, relax Drum God.