New Cars--help me out a little

In My Humble Opinion
1

Say you wanted to buy a new car for less than 14000, which is capable of holding two adults and two childrens’ car seats.

I have found a Hyundai Accent which fulfills these criteria for right at 14000, but I am wondering if I can do better, pricewise. (That 10 year warranty on Hyundais is pretty nice, though, and my present car is an Accent and it seemed like a pretty sweet little vehicle…)

I’ve looked around a little, but I’m curious to know if others have looked into this recently and what they have found.

So, assuming the desiderata I’ve given, whether express or somehow implied, please tell me your recommendations.

I’m trying to avoid buying a used car, but if you wish to dissuade me from that for some reason that’s up for grabs too.

-Kris

2

A Toyota Yaris will probably suit your needs – and (though I can’t be certain) might give better fuel economy as well.

3

Not a General Question but looking for opinions.

Moved to IMHO.

samclem

4

Any of the new mini-cars should satisfy your requirements: Accent, Toyota Yaris, Honda Fit, Nissan Versa. Also, if you want to go a little different, a Scion xB would work. All should be available new for around your price point. And, before Rocketeer shows up, you might want to check out a Suzuki Aerio. :wink:

5

A Mazda 3 with auto/air is around 15K. If you drive a stick a little cheaper. It has gotten very good reviews from Edmunds and Consumer Reports.

6

If I were you I’d see what kind of deal you can get at Hyundai. I got an brand new 2004 Elantra for $9400 if I recall correctly. It was under $10,000. The list price was like 15,000. My car, which I love, has power windows, A/C, airbags, cloth seats, power door locks and all the rest. I did have to threaten to walk out to get a good price but overall it wasn’t a bad shopping experence.

I just checked the web site at http://www.hyundaiusa.com/ and it is showing Accents from 10,415. Four door Elantras start at 13,865. 14,000 for an Accent seems really high as the Accents are Hyundais’ lowest priced car. IIRC, Accents were going for ~7,000 when I bought my Elantra. I orginally went in looking at Accents but soon figured out that I could get an Elantra, a somewhat nicer car, for not a whole lot more money.

Slee

7

[QUOTE=Frylock]

I’m trying to avoid buying a used car, but if you wish to dissuade me from that for some reason that’s up for grabs too.

-Kris
[/QUOTE]

Well, it’s well-known that buying a new car is the less economical option. When you buy a new car, you get dinged for all the new car fees, sales commissions, and so on. Then you drive off the lot and the car drops something like 15-20% of its value as it leaves the dealership. Meanwhile, if you buy a car that’s a couple of years old, you get it for a lower price, you can check reliability records for that year in Consumer Reports, and insurance and property taxes will be somewhat lower. Unless the car is a complete lemon, any money you have to spend fixing it up will be eclipsed by the savings.

Most modern cars will still look and drive like new even at the 50K mark, so you’re not really losing much by buying used.

Naturally, your mileage might vary, and some cars hold their value better than others so are harder to get a deal on, even if used.

About all you get from buying a new car is the new car smell and the knowledge that all the dings on the fender happened on your watch.

8

I second the notion that you should at least consider used cars. Like Finagle said, new cars lose a lot of value just by virtue of being sold.

This means that if you can find a used car with low mileage, you’ll probably end up paying 70-80% of the new sticker price, and most likely won’t have any mechanical issues, if the car has been decently maintained. I’d probably stay away from former rental cars- people abuse those something fierce. But you might be able to get a great deal on a 2 year lease return with something like 25,000 miles on it.

Go check places like autobytel and carmax- they have pretty sweet search engines for that kind of thing.

9

[QUOTE=sleestak]
If I were you I’d see what kind of deal you can get at Hyundai. I got an brand new 2004 Elantra for $9400 if I recall correctly. It was under $10,000. The list price was like 15,000. My car, which I love, has power windows, A/C, airbags, cloth seats, power door locks and all the rest. I did have to threaten to walk out to get a good price but overall it wasn’t a bad shopping experence.

I just checked the web site at http://www.hyundaiusa.com/ and it is showing Accents from 10,415. Four door Elantras start at 13,865. 14,000 for an Accent seems really high as the Accents are Hyundais’ lowest priced car. IIRC, Accents were going for ~7,000 when I bought my Elantra. I orginally went in looking at Accents but soon figured out that I could get an Elantra, a somewhat nicer car, for not a whole lot more money.

Slee
[/QUOTE]

kbb.com says people are paying, on average, after “rebates” and so on, 13193 for a 2006 Hyundai, and I’ve got an offer for 13050. (That’s after all “rebates” etc.)

Should I really tell them something like “It’s 10,000 or I walk?”

I haven’t figured out how this works. Why would they sell a car for less than what (apparently, according to kbb anyway) they paid for it? (In the case of the 2006 Hyundai, invoice was aroud 14,500 to my recollection.)

-FrL-

10

If you had to choose between a free 2006 Hyundai, and a free 2006 Yaris, which would you pick and why?

-FrL-

11

[QUOTE=bump]
I second the notion that you should at least consider used cars. Like Finagle said, new cars lose a lot of value just by virtue of being sold.

This means that if you can find a used car with low mileage, you’ll probably end up paying 70-80% of the new sticker price, and most likely won’t have any mechanical issues, if the car has been decently maintained. I’d probably stay away from former rental cars- people abuse those something fierce. But you might be able to get a great deal on a 2 year lease return with something like 25,000 miles on it.

Go check places like autobytel and carmax- they have pretty sweet search engines for that kind of thing.
[/QUOTE]

Growing up, my parents got burned so many times buying used cars.

My thinking has been, “If I buy a new one and it breaks down, at least I know I won’t have to pay for it because of the warranty.”

That’s what attracts me to brands like Hyundai and even Kia–they have the longest warranty. But a friend of mine tells me I can probably demand that anyone else give me a 5 year warranty at no extra cost, as well. Is that true?

How do warranties work on used cars? It just extends til the original owner’s warranty would have ended, right?

-Kris

12

[QUOTE=Finagle]
Most modern cars will still look and drive like new even at the 50K mark, so you’re not really losing much by buying used.

Naturally, your mileage might vary, and some cars hold their value better than others so are harder to get a deal on, even if used.
[/QUOTE]

Actually, I’m going to offer a bit of different perspective from Finagle and bump. For a less-desirable car (like a domestic sedan or minivan), the price goes down quickly. However, for many Japanese brands, the residual value stays quite high. For that reason, I think it often makes sense to consider the new car - particularly if you can get one near the end of a model cycle or year-end. Mazda and Hyundai are probably worth looking at, since you tend to get a bit more for your dollar than with Toyota or Honda. Of course, you could get a nice used Civic or Accord for your budget. Good luck.

13

Not only is it much cheaper to get used, if you’re still willing to spend the same amount that you would have spent on a new car, you suddenly have the option of luxuries (leather seats, power features, better audio) that you could not have afforded in a new car. And let’s face it, we all like a few bells and whistles.

14

[QUOTE=Finagle]
Well, it’s well-known that buying a new car is the less economical option. When you buy a new car, you get dinged for all the new car fees, sales commissions, and so on. Then you drive off the lot and the car drops something like 15-20% of its value as it leaves the dealership. Meanwhile, if you buy a car that’s a couple of years old, you get it for a lower price, you can check reliability records for that year in Consumer Reports, and insurance and property taxes will be somewhat lower.
About all you get from buying a new car is the new car smell and the knowledge that all the dings on the fender happened on your watch.
[/QUOTE]

Well, not always. Used car financing is always at a much higher rate and shorter term than new car financing- which is sometimes 0%. The amount of cash you save on finance fees can beat the savings from buying a “late model used car”.

And then there’s the “get a piece of shit” possibility with a used car- a salvage car or one whose odometer has been turned back or one sold with a known to the seller but kept secret from the new buyer defect. None of that can happen with a new car- or if it does, you’re protected by the warranty. But if you know someone with a late model Honda or Toyota, and you know why they are selling it, then sure, go for it.

I’d stay away from the Yaris. It’s got that crappy center mount console, and you’ll have to buy it from a Toyota dealer, the biggest crooks in the business. If you must- get a Honda Fit. Great little car.

Chexy Cobalt? Ford Focus?

The Hyundai does have a great warranty, and they were giving both a rebate AND 0% financing. Misubishi also has a good warranty.

What I’d do is make a list of the cars you want, then see which Manufacturer is offering the best deal. Look for long term low rate financing and/or rebates. Hard to get both.

15

[QUOTE=Frylock]
kbb.com says people are paying, on average, after “rebates” and so on, 13193 for a 2006 Hyundai, and I’ve got an offer for 13050. (That’s after all “rebates” etc.)

Should I really tell them something like “It’s 10,000 or I walk?”

I haven’t figured out how this works. Why would they sell a car for less than what (apparently, according to kbb anyway) they paid for it? (In the case of the 2006 Hyundai, invoice was aroud 14,500 to my recollection.)

-FrL-
[/QUOTE]

I am in no way an expert on buying cars but I will tell you what I did and how it worked.

First, I checked a bunch of sites looking for what the car was going for. It was way less than the sticker price, like $9500. The sticker on mine was 15,000 and change. When I spoke with the guy I knew what I would pay and (this is really key) I was willing to walk away without the car if they would not meet my price. Do not fall in love with a car and get into a “Gotta Have It” frame of mind.

I drove a bunch of cars and lliked the Hyundai best. When it came time to talk about buying the first thing they wanted to know about was financing. I told them we could discuss that AFTER we decided on a price. I already had a loan but, had they known that, they might not have gone as low on the price. The dealers make a killing on financing and will give you a lower price if you fianance through them because they make it up in interest. So, the salesguy asks me what I would pay for the car. We did the little piece of paper bit. So I wrote down something extremely low, like 6,000. The salesguy said they obviously could not go for that price and offered something like 14,000. We did that back and forth a couple times until the salesguy offered 10,500. At that point I said I needed to discuss it with my Dad. Another note, bring someone along with you when you buy. It gives you an out to say ‘We need to discuss this for a minute’. The salesperson should give you space to think. If he won’t, walk out.

Anyhoo, the sales guy left for a minute and I decided 10,500 was too much. When he came back I said I couldn’t do 10,500. The salesguy said it was as low as he could go. I said fine, nice talking to you and headed to the door. I got about halfway there and the salesguy caught up to me and said ‘Wait a minute, let me talk to my boss. What are you willing to pay?’. I said 9,000. The salesguy went off into a back room and came back a bit later and said 9,800. I said, split the difference and you have a deal. He said ok. He then asked about fianancing. I said I already had a loan and would be writing a check for the car.

Another story. My Dad just bought a new Mustang a couple weeks ago. He just got the car last week. My Dad brought me along to be the other person. My Mom hates this stuff so I got elected. The story is basically the same as above. I don’t remember the prices. Anyway, my Dad did the ‘We need to talk for a minute’ thing a couple times. He really didn’t talk to me, he just mumbled numbers at me, he’s really good at this stuff and just wanted time to think. Anyway, the sales guy finally came up with a price and my Dad agreed. The sales guy said he was going to go get the paperwork started. My Dad, grabbed the guy and said ‘If there is any additional fees added on I will walk. The agreed price includes everything.’ The salesguy was apparently deaf. He came back and said ‘This is the price. Here is the paperwork and, oh, there is an additional $495 paperwork fee.’ My Dad said ‘I told you, no extra fees’. The salesguy started explaining that the fees are required and blah, blah, blah. The ‘paperwork fee’ is nothing but profit for the dealer. We walked out. I am not sure exactly what happened next, I think another salesman called my Dad a day or so later. In any case, my Dad ended up getting the car for the price originally agreed on.

The realy funny thing about the above story is that my Dad would have bought the car for the additional $495 dollars if the dealer did not try and sneak it in. If the offer had included the $495 in the original offer it would have still been a good deal.

As far as the invoice price goes you might want to read this. The invoice prices has a bunch of stuff added in that is basically pure profit for the dealer. The price you are concerned with is dealers price. The two are not the same.

Hope this helps.
Slee

16

[QUOTE=sleestak]
Hope this helps.
Slee
[/QUOTE]

Thanks, it does to an extent.

I’m already planning, though, on just going in with a price up front, and letting them take it or leave it.

I decided to see what the Consumer Reports website has to say–paid 14 dollars for a report on the 2006 Hyundai Accent. According to them, there are no hidden rebates on that model, and their “bottom line” price is 13,500. (Thats the 2006 Accent with A/C, automatic transmission.) There is in addition to this a $1000 rebate. I’ve had one dealer I’ve already gotten to commit to an offer of 13,700 plus rebate, so if Consumer Reports is any good, it looks like that’s close to the best I’m going to get.

I’ve tried looking around for any cheaper 2006 cars, and I am not finding any. (Note: the A/C and Automatic transmission add up to about $1500. Also, the accent includes ABS brakes while most other cars do not except as an option. ABS brakes are nice for safety and for insurance costs.)

Tomorrow I’m going to see what Carmax can do, but I think I simply refuse to buy anything that doesn’t have at least three years left on its warranty, and that probably will limit my options severely.

So unless someone (here or elsewhere) can yell “noooooooo” in slow mo and stop me in the nick of time by showing me where I might find a better price, I think I’m going with the Accent for 13,700 plus rebate. (Actually, I’ve got one more dealer who I am going to ask if he can beat this number.)

It doesn’t seem like there are any of these hidden rebates etc. people are talking about except on the more expensive cars. Anyone have info to the contrary?

I’m a little disappointed–when I bought my present car 4 years ago, there were a couple of models available for under 10,000. Looks like this is no longer true.

-FrL-

17

You might check edmunds.com - their TMV for a 2006 Accent with AT, ABS, A/C is about $13,600 after rebate (knock off about $700 without alloy wheels, power windows, power locks), or about $200 over invoice (I priced it with the options that I thought you said you wanted). So it sounds like the price you were quoted was reasonable. A 2006 Elantra, similarly equiped with AT, ABS (with traction contol), A/C is about $14,700 after rebate - that might be an easier car to live with - it’s bigger to fit kid’s seats and has a 2.0L engine rather than a 1.6L. Good luck, and check back with what you decide to get.

18

I was in the same position as you a few years back. We decided on a year and a half old Honda Accord we bought from a luxury dealer. It had 7500 miles and we saved almost 40% of the retail price and still had something like 2 years factory warranty left.

I’ve had the car for 13 years now, paid off since 1997. I just ticked over 160K miles and aside from a starter (in the last 6 months) and the timing belt every 75K miles, nothing has gone wrong with it.

I’m pretty much hooked on late model Accords, my next one will be a used one as well. Maybe a Camry but I do really really like the Accord.

19

Thanks for the responses everyone.

A related question:

When CarMax calls its prices “no haggle” does this really mean “no haggle” even in the sense that I won’t be able to get them to give the car for lower than the price on the sticker?

There’s a couple of tempting offers at a CarMax dealership near me, for example, a 2005 Elantra 2k miles for 12,998. I was hoping I could tell them something like $10,000 + one year tacked on to the warranty, and see if I could get them to give it to me for 10,500 or 11,000 or so.

It can’t hurt to try this, but should I even bother? Would it be useless?

Thanks again for all help. This has been enlightening.

-Kris

20

[QUOTE=Frylock]
Thanks for the responses everyone.

A related question:

When CarMax calls its prices “no haggle” does this really mean “no haggle” even in the sense that I won’t be able to get them to give the car for lower than the price on the sticker?

There’s a couple of tempting offers at a CarMax dealership near me, for example, a 2005 Elantra 2k miles for 12,998. I was hoping I could tell them something like $10,000 + one year tacked on to the warranty, and see if I could get them to give it to me for 10,500 or 11,000 or so.

It can’t hurt to try this, but should I even bother? Would it be useless?

Thanks again for all help. This has been enlightening.

-Kris
[/QUOTE]

Sorry, don’t know much about CarMax. But even at Saturn there’s a tiny bit of room for haggle (my last Saturn already had 200 miles on it, so I got them to throw in free Oil changes for a year and free floormats. Big whoop). But generally “no haggle” would not include the kind of price reduction you’re talking about. The extra one year of warranty isn’t an unreasonable request.