That sucks, and the assholes who attacked you are to blame for their actions.
But – do you think such attacks would be more or less likely if mainstream Jewish organizations hadn’t spent the last several decades telling people that all Jews love Israel and anti-Zionism is anti-Semitism?
That should be all the more reason for Israel to refrain for causing and allowing atrocities, and should make us even more angry than otherwise at Israel for doing so.
Huh? No, that’s not at all what I said. What I can’t discuss outside the Pit are my thoughts on the whitewashing of Jewish oppression and the idea that being oppressed and suffering is somehow virtuous.
I don’t reject the Torah or the Talmud. Jewish texts are full of wisdom and context about the history if the Jewish people. There is a ton of value in the corpus of Jewish texts, both religious and secular, that the Jewish people created over the years. That corpus is my birthright every bit as much as it is yours or Ben Gvir’s, and I don’t need to accept it as the literal Word of God for that to be true.
Lior Schlein is a Liberal, so I certainly don’t think his position is that religious Jews (or anyone else) should be forbidden from holding or expressing opinions.
To each their own. I think the results speak for themselves. In the European side of my family, every non-Zionist Jew died.
I submit that it’s irrelevant.
I accept that anecdotes are not data, but having been born and partly raised in the USSR (Ukraine, specifically), I can assure you that anti-Semitism was a well established feature of society and anti-Zionism was never mentioned in any context. If anything, Israel being the ‘proper place for Jews’ was a common sentiment expressed. Of course, being free to leave the USSR for Jews was the tricky bit at the time.
Well, you go on ahead and be angry with Israel. It’s been my lived experience that it won’t win you any “oh, he’s one of the good Jews” credits. YMMV.
I’m worried about doing the right thing - for Jews and for humans in general, not what kind of Jew others see me as. YMMV.
If you’re not angry with Israel, then that tells me something about what kind of person you are.
But that idea is absolutely central to traditional Rabbinic Judaism. We were exiled for our sins, and we need to endure patiently until the time for redemption comes.
You have radically broken with Jewish tradition, and nice words about how our religious texts are “full of wisdom” with “a ton of value” (just like everyone else’s religious texts) can’t whitewash that.
Didn’t you hear? The ‘good Jews’ know that they need to place the needs of the world above their own survival.
If that’s what it takes to be a ‘good Jew’, I’ll pass. I’d rather be a Jew who fights back, even if Golda Meir was right about the world’s opinion of that type of Jew.
Kind of sick that any Jew who displays a modicum of ethics and basic human decency is accused of doing so only in order to suck up to the goyim.
I’m angry with very specific types of individuals living in Israel and their lack of humanity and decency. I’m not angry at the entire fucking country.
I’ve said that multiple times throughout this thread and you not being acknowledge that reminds me of the type of person you are.
So is the idea that a woman cannot get a divorce without the consent of her husband.
I think if God didn’t want us to have a country, we wouldn’t have been able to get one in 1948.
I know - that’s what happen when you mix Liberalism with any religion. People who haven’t radically broken with their religious traditions are backwards fundamentalists.
By “a modicum of ethics and basic human decency” you mean “said that Jewish people need to place the ‘needs of the world’ above their own survival”? Because that’s exactly, literally, what she did.
If you think that I need to deprioritize my own survival and the survival of my people in order to demonstrate a ‘modicum of ethics and basic human decency’, you and I will never see eye to eye.
I’m angry at Israel in the same way I’m angry at the US – we and they are allowing our governments to commit atrocities in our name, causing mass suffering and death, and doing serious long term damage to our countries and futures and reputations.
Some people just can’t separate the actions of a few extremists from a wider population of millions of people.
The elected government and military of Israel (and the US, for that matter) aren’t “a few extremists”.
Nonsense. Of course they can.
They’re just very selective about it.
I’d invite you to, specifically, quote the post in which you think I’m not properly separating the actions of “a few extremists” from a wider population.
Wait… the entire IDF (and the US military, for that matter) are ‘extremists’?
I’ll be sure to tell my son how disappointed I am in him when he’s back from deployment.
Right now, their leadership are extremists. Do you disagree?
Not to mention ex-IDF, which is basically everyone.
I don’t know what you’re talking about, because you posted a link that requires registration to read.
I would say that “placing the needs of the world above your own survival”, although admirable, represents an extremely high level of moral development that it would be unrealistic to expect most people to attain. Condemning Israel’s current actions in Gaza on the other hand, definitely requires only a bare modicum of ethics and basic human decency.