So it turns out I need a new furnace. Got 2 estimates yesterday…
Guy #1 comes in , glances at the old furnace, writes up an estimate for a new model. Old furnace (almost 40 years old) is 60,000 BTU. New furnace would be a 60,000 BTU 80% AFUE. He also says I could replace the a/c coil for $170.00. Does not mention getting permits.
Guy #2 comes in, measures my apartment, glances at the old furnace and writes up an estimate. $2550.00 less a 5% discount (they’re having a sale…) 50,000 BTU 80% AFUE. All permits are included. Does not mention coil, so I ask. He says they can replace it if I want. For $610.00.
Both estimates include a new digital programmable t-stat, to replace the ancient model I currently have.
So both guys sound pretty close on the furnace, so I’d use guy #2 just because he seemed more professional, explained why I could use a smaller furnace (higher efficiency model…), brought up the permits, etc.
But why the $440.00 difference on the coil? Guy #1 is trying to buy my business and will jack up the price later? Guy #2 is just trying to make huge profit on the coil? Do I even need to replace the coil if the a/c works fine??
The guy with the more expensive AC coil is probably the more accurate - presumably, his coil will include proper capture of the old Freon, a fresh charge of the stuff after the coil’s replaced and all the “this and thats” that go along.
Mr. $170 will probably just crack a nut to release the Freon, (illegal, but what do you want from someone that’s not telling you about the permit?) swap the coil and pump in enough to replace what was released.
Unless you are getting a great price on the thermostat, you can do it yourself. It’s just a few colored wires that need to be connected to the proper terminals. If you go with a good brand name like Honeywell then there will be lots of documentation as well.
Ask for the part number & call a store & find out what it costs. Then you can dicker with them. Same with the furnace, call a store & find out what they cost. Perhaps Home Depot?
Alot of times they just have a set rate for things. I asked a plumbing company for a water heater without giving much info. He said $550 & they put it in included. They probably said that to everyone. I went to a store, priced a big hot water heater it was $125.00 & got a guy to put it in with me for $100.00
Assuming that there is adequate headroom, and that the cased coil can sit atop the replacement furnace, there is no reason to replace it; you will need a transition fitting with canvas collar.
I’d only replace the evaporator if it could not be mated with a replacement furnace, or if it had been improperly sized to start with.
Regarding release of refrigerant-it’s like letting dollars float into the sky. In addition to being an EPA violation, why would I throw away a product worth ~$3 per pound?
Back to the furnace-assuming it is gas or oil fueled, and you’re stepping up to an 80% furnace, there are big considerations on how you vent the flue gases. Calculations are necessary based upon BTUH, length of connecting flue pipe to thimble, chimney height, whether or not chimney is mostly enclosed within the dwelling or is “stranded”, e.g. stuck to an exterior wall. Do any other appliances vent into the same chimney? What is the type of construction, e.g. masonry with terra cotta liner?
The point of this is that flue gases from higher efficiency furnaces have less ‘wasted heat’ and can stratify within the chimney, partially condense, and form acidic compounds which then begin to eat away at the physical structure of the chimney. As such, a proper chimney calculation is essential to a proper furnace install. If your chimney is too big, or is deteriorated, a metallic liner can be installed to achieve proper sizing consistent with your heating appliance(s). Be prepared to spend some more money, though.
80% is the limit to using the old chimy and chould be fine, it has been pointed out on this board that a high eff (90%+) is not a hard conversion and a plactic pipe through a wall could be used. In the long run it pays to do that. I found this out after I replaced mine though.
Unless you have a licence you will not be able to buy any furnace or a/c parts from the wholesale place where these 2 guys will be shopping so forget finding out the price and ‘dickering’.
The second guy does sound more professional and probably is including the price of pumping the old freon down into a container for proper disposal.
I would check with the BBB and see what they have to say about these 2 guys. And unless you want to void your warranty I would allow the installer to replace the old thermostat, there is a bit more to it than a ‘few wires’, especially if you are replacing a really ancient 120v t-stat with a modern 12 or 24 v t-stat.
