Are you sure there’s a difference? Yeah, she wasn’t a Voldemorte supporter, but she’s nasty enough.
Draco may yet qualify. He’s a bastard, sure, but he’s never done anything outright evil. Moreover, he seems to be having a Gollum with his dad - he knows his Dad’s a jerk, but he loves him, too.
Well, my guess is that everyone in Slytherin right now is a pureblood snob. So whomever it is (and I agree that there has to be SOMEONE from Slytherin who turns good or gets redeemed other than Snape!) is probably still a total prick right now, and will have to change for some reason. Remember, it isn’t just ambition that makes a good Slytherin: it’s also anti-mudblood.
I agree that Draco is really the only Syltherin we even KNOW well enough for it to matter much that he reforms. But… he’s a pretty dark guy. He’s happy about the idea of mudbloods being murdered. He is delighted at the death of people that Harry loves. He supports Voldemort, even knowing all that Voldemort stands for. That’s downright evil for you right there already.
I agree. In fact, Umbridge was part of what made Book 5 a delight, rather than just treading familiar ground, proving that Rowling’s still got it as a storyteller.
She’s also what has me sold on this Percy thing: we’ve been told and told that Fudge and Umbridge really aren’t dark wizards, they really aren’t imperioused, and I don’t expect to find out that they were (though who knows where Umbridge might end up in the future?). We’ve got that handled and covered. Now what we need IS someone who’s at least being used as a dark spy, if not being seduced already. And Percy is the best candidate.
Remember that in the First War, the Death Eaters used the Imperious curse very very liberally in order to sow dischord in quiet.
Personally, I don’t buy that Percy is being Imperiused (or, equivalently, that he’s a polyjuice imposter). He’s just the other side of the coin we’ve seen: Bad people can go good, and good people can go bad. And the way he went bad fits perfectly with all that we’ve seen of his personality. He adores order, and slavishly follows rules, and has since at least the first book (and probably earlier, to judge from his brothers’ opinion of him). For a wizard, the Ministry is the law, so naturally he sides with the Ministry. Unfortunately, his personality blinds him to the fact that sometimes the law is wrong.
Snape can still be a spy. No, he didn’t show up for Voldemort’s rebirthday party, but he has a good alibi. You can’t Apparate or Disapparate on the Hogwarts grounds, remember? So all he has to tell Voldemort is that he ran for the edge of campus as soon as he got the summons, but didn’t get there soon enough. Which explains why he’s still behaving the same as before towards Harry and Draco: He needs to act the part of a Death-Eater (not that’s he’s fond of Harry, either, of course). Of course, folks are a bit suspicious of him now, but doesn’t Dumbledore admit that his job will be more dangerous now than before?
In regards to half-decent Slytherins, of course Snape is half decent (though maybe not three quarters decent), and I also got the impression that Ollivander (the wand merchant) was a Slytherin. All that bit about Voldemort having accomplished great things… Terrible, but great.
And now, some speculation of my own. We already know that James was a Griffindor and that Sirius was a Slytherin. Which leads me to suspect that Remus and Peter were from the other two houses (Remus from Slytherin and Peter from Hufflepuff, perhaps?)
On another note, Neville. First of all, he’s sweet on Ginny. Remember, he invited her to the Ball in Goblet of Fire, and in Order of the Phoenix*, he doesn’t get involved in the fighting until Ginny is threatened (and then he fights quite admirably). But obviously, both he and Harry can’t end up paired with Ginny, and I do still suspect that Harry and Ginny will end up together. So that needs to be resolved somehow. Secondly, both he and Harry now have a score to settle with Bellatrix Lestrange: Neville for his Cruciato-maddened parents, and Harry for the death of Sirius.
I see a pretty obvious possibility for how this might be resolved: Bellatrix tries something against Ginny, but Neville sacrifices himself to save her. This might be a repeat of Lily saving Harry from Avada Kedavra, and we might see some suitably heroic line from Neville about how she’s not going to take away anyone else that he loves. This leaves Harry free to both get ultimate revenge on Bellatrix and to end up with Ginny.
The thing is, we’ve seen this already, with plenty of other characters. We’ve already learned this lesson from Fudge, from Umbridge, from Wormtail, and so on.
Yes and no. While all this fits Percy, his break with his break with his family, especially his mother, seems beyond bounds. So too does his almost 180 antipathy to Harry and Dumbledore.
How was Kharkarov expected to come then? All you have to do is leave Hogwarts grounds, and that couldn’t have taken very long at all if the need was pressing. It’s not like Voldy bides excuses for anyone else who doesn’t quickly show up. The fact is, Snape is almost certainly who Voldy was talking about as being the traitor, especially given that Voldy never mentioned anyone else who could be Snape (and would have no reason not to, given that Harry was to be wormfood). And given that we only know of one traitor: Snape. Combined with Dumbledore’s trust (again, powerful legilimens), which itself seemed to be gained from info that Snape had given to help bring down the Death Eaters, I can’t see Snape being a bad guy. Not in a “that’s exactly what you’d least expect, so I’ll do it!” kind of way either. It would ring false to his character.
Sirius was? I didn’t catch that!
What about Luna Lovegood? I LIKED her, and it seemed that she and Harry had sort of an interesting friendship going.
As for Slytherin, Crabbe and Goyle don’t seem “EVIL/EVIL”-just really dense.
Ditto on Luna: she’s a character that could really develop, and she seems to have some interest in either Harry or Ron already. The last chapter is really powerful, and the bond Harry and Luna share does seem important. However, I’m not sure if they were being positioned to be a future couple in that scene, or just two kids with a deep understanding of things. I CAN’T really see Harry and Luna together if she stays as loopy and goofy and Quibbler obsessed as she seems most of the time. However, Harry and Luna would certainly solve the potential Ginny/Nelville/Harry triangle. Though I’m not sure that that is really meant to be either: Ginny is cool and all, but is Harry ever going to care for her? I dunno. Hermy and Ron, though, seems like a done deal. For all we know, they’ve ALREADY been secretly on and off. They certainly bicker like a married couple, and constantly make slightly cryptic remarks about each other.
Crabbe and Goyle certainly seem to like hurting other people, and they also seem to be perfectly okay with, even proud about, their dad’s association with a genocidal maniac. I agree that they’re probably too dense to really understand how that is any different from being proud of their dad’s stamp collection, though.
I don’t think being anti-mudblood is necessary, just common. Slytherin is comparable to the English aristocracy: old families with old money and old ideas, with a lot of conservative ideas and class prejudices. That doesn’t mean that all of them are like that, just that a lot are because of the environment they grew up in and the values they were taught.
The more I think about the “Percy is a polyjuice impersonator” idea, the more I like it. He’d be the perfect mole. He’s knows everything that the Ministry knows, but his position as assistant means that he is below most people’s notice. (Everybody knows who the president of the United States is, but who here knows who his personal secretery is? Or cares?)
At first I didn’t know where you got this, but now I kind of get it; Hagrid said pretty early on that all dark wizards came out of Slytherin. Meanwhile, he was under the assumption that Sirius was a dark wizard, which would make him a Slytherin, or else Hagrid’s statement would be untrue.
It would be cool if it worked out this way, but I think Haggy’s statement was an exaggeration or maybe he just forgot about Sirius. I could see it happening, because for all his sweetness and good intentions, Hagrid’s certainly not the brightest crayon in the box, and we can’t trust everything he says.
According to The Harry Potter Lexicon Hagrid, Sirius Black, and James Potter were in Gryffindor. It claims that Peter Pettigrew was in Gryffindor as well but is not sure (“likely, but not certain”).
I’m sorry. Forgot to mention *Remus Lupin. He was in Gryffindor, too. Revealed in OP to be in the same house as James.
*For some reason I confused him with Ruebus Hagrid when I read it earlier in this thread. Sorry.
Until I see evidence to the contrary I’ll assume Snape is spying on V. If so, he obviously must be pretending to V. to spy on D. (as he’s always at Hogwarts, etc), which is a pretty good reason to not apparate off to V.
Further, I think it’s clear that even though he’s aligned with D. he does hate Harry and like Draco - he’s a bastard, despite being on the good side. This isn’t totally unreasonable - look at Gryffindors and Slytherins: they’re not as different as you’d like to think, in that Gryffindors do some nasty things to Slytherins too, etc. Except that Slytherins and V. all share this mudblood-hating thing.
The question remains whether D. and Snape are personal friends or simply allies; that’d be an interesting one.
Nah … surely they have to have been housemates, and in the same dorm. It’s way too improbable that Remus’ friends from other houses would have worked out his secret when his own roommates did not. Which house that is is another question, of course, and I don’t think we have enough information to answer it. I’m inclined to agree that we can’t attach too much weight to what Hagrid says about all dark wizards coming from Slytherin – and still less to Harry’s assumption that his father was a Gryffindor Quidditch player. Apart from that, I can’t think of a single piece of solid evidence except maybe the fact that in PoA, Remus proposes a toast to a Gryffindor victory over Ravenclaw, which makes it seem unlikely, though not completely impossible, that Ravenclaw is his own old house.
I suspect that JKR is being coy about this on purpose, either because she’s got some major revelation up her sleeve or because she’s moving away from attaching so much importance to the house system.
–lifeonwry
you answered your question yourself: keep your friends close, but your enemies closer. slytherin house could be eliminated, but not only would that be extremely difficult to do all things considered (among other problems there is a school board that holds power enough to evict dumbledore, and therefore must have a say in this kind of change…see book 2), it would be a terrible mistake. sure, it’s a drag to have all those obnoxious slytherin kids around, but that’s better than if they formed their own school, where dumbledore and others can have no say on them or even have an idea of what they’re up to.
i would be surprised if by book 7, the slytherins are still as full-on evil as harry believes them to be. harry (and his friends) is big on fighting for the little guy and defending innocents against his enemies (see the remembrall incident, book 1, and harry’s conversation with dudley in the beginning of book 5). but he’s fairly blind towards them. he sees them all as evil and that’s that. harry potter does not extend those morals towards the slytherins. he felt no pity for draco when he was turned into a ferret. he’s not very good at seeing people as equals. only some people deserve his sympathy, and only some people are worthy enough to join him in battle.
but he’s beginning to realise these faults. well, they’re getting shoved in his face by people like ginny and neville. with all the ‘things aren’t as black and white as he thought’ going on in book five, i’d be really surprised and, frankly, disappointed if he doesn’t soon begin to take to heart what sirius told him in book five, that ‘not everyone is split up into “good” and “death eater”.’
as for snape…yes we all see now that there’s more to him than meets the eye, more than we will probably ever know as these books are told the way harry sees them. but as obnoxious as he is and as much as he needs to grow up and let some things go, he probably won’t, because not everybody does. but he’s got the perfect personality for this double-agent job. no one out there is better suited.
let’s say you’re dumbledore. you’ve got a school to run and one of the houses turns out most of your future enemies. are you going to head it with someone you can’t trust? no. dumbledore has his faults, but he’s not stupid. he knows that slytherin house needs to be led by someone the slytherins will trust and accept as their head of house, but also someone who is on his side. snape calls his subject ‘the subtle art of making potions’. he’s good with details and complexities. he is quick-minded. he is also quick to judge and quick-tempered. and while he takes out all his frustrations on harry (and neville), if you look at what he says to harry, a lot of it can be applied to draco malfoy. snape has HUGE blind spots when it comes to certain people, but i can’t imagine he doesn’t see right through malfoy. draco’s a coward and hides in the legacy of his father and has a terribly inflated ego. snape sees it, but he also sees that malfoy needs to like him. he hates harry, but i’ve always had the feeling that he lets himself get carried away with his complaints about harry because he can’t complain about draco.
snape has no friends. he trusts no one, ever, except maybe dumbledore. he is resourceful and is willing to do the dirty work of spying. he’s also a good enough occlumens that dumbledore would entrust harry to his teaching. dumbledore’s admitted to having sources in voldemort’s circle. there’s just no better candidate.
so to get where i’m going and address the op…
draco trusts him most likely because his father told him to. iirc in the first book draco says to snape upon meeting him that lucius told him snape is the best teacher in the school. draco does most of what he does because of either his father or because he’s miffed or just being generally obnoxious. somehow snape has managed apparantly to keep up with the idea that he’s still a death eater. something to remember: none of the death eaters knows the name of every other death eater. that way they cant all be sold out by any one person, and voldemort’s always got some supporters around. in little hangleton at the end of book four, there’s no evidence pointing either way to whether snape was there or not. voldemort didn’t name many of them.
as for the pensieve? i suppose we’ll just have to wait and see what the ‘rules’ governing the pensieve might be.
Here’s a different speculation on Percy.
Perhaps, instead of being a spy for the Voldy crowd, they are hoping he will be recruited. That is to say, his break with his family is an act - with some uncertain number of people aware of the act, but a lot of people not aware of it. He is actually working with Dumbledore, and they are hoping that this rift will encourage one of Voldy’s crowd to either try to impersonate him, or to try to recruit him. He could then be a spy, or at least a conduit for misinformation to Voldy. Any thoughts?
Another thing about Harry almost being in Slytherin-didn’t the Hat also consider putting Hermione in Ravenclaw?
And am I the only one who is glad Harry’s getting over Cho? I never really liked her.
Yes–the Hat did think of putting Hermione in Ravenclaw. I’m glad she ended up in Gryffindor, though.
And no–my sister and I both just detested Cho Chang, and we’re glad that little fling is over.
And I also really, really, really want to know what’s up with Percy!
The biggest thing I liked about her is that she broke Ravenclaw streak. Through all of the first four books, the only Ravenclaw characters we ever saw were nothing but love interests. Cho was the girl Harry had a crush on. Penelope was Percy’s girlfriend. Padme got just enough “screen time” to go to the Christmas Ball with Ron. Even the Ravenclaw quidditch captain doesn’t do anything more than go out with Fleur, and later, Cho. If Luna turns into yet another Ravenclaw love interest, then I shall be quite dissappointed with Rowling.
As to the houses of James and friends, my line of reasoning for Sirius was indeed what karomon pointed out, but I think that’s reinforced by what we see in Order of the Phoenix. The picture now is that Sirius followed in his family’s footsteps at first (which would make him a natural for Slytherin House), but then had a change of heart while at school. And for James, at least, we can be certain: It’s not just Harry’s guess, his name was on a Griffindor quidditch trophy. And I can see Remus being willing to root against his own house, for a friend… He’s the type for whom friendship loyalties would be much more important than house loyalties. Especially since, if my theory is correct, he didn’t have any friends in Ravenclaw in the first place.
I don’t think that there’s any debate that Snape is a total jerk. His dislike for Harry is not feigned, although I note that he’s rather more civil in the early Occlumency lessons (can you imagine him giving Harry permission to use his wand on him, in front of the Potions class?). But still, he’s our jerk. Just one more case of morality in the HP books not being all black and white.
And Guin, for the most part, I agree with you about Cho. Her character was necessary, as Harry’s first crush, but a boy’s first crush is, as a rule, not the right person for him. So it’s good that Harry is getting over her, but he did have to fall for her (or for someone, at least) in the first place.
Oooh…A Harry Potter thread. I have to chime in. So much to talk about here:
Personally, though, I think Neville is destined for Luna, if anybody. JKR has a romantic theme going w/ trains, due to the fact that her parents met at King’s Cross. Look at the meet-cutes we’ve had so far dealing with the Hogwarts Express. Harry sees Ginny running after the train, half-laughing, half-crying–a very endearing image. Ron and Hermione’s first interactions are on the train, too, and are very typical of their future relationship. And where does Neville meet Luna? On the train, where he is afraid to sit next to her until Harry & Ginny come along.
Maybe a stretch, but I like it. Neville & Luna are obviously very iffy, but R/H & H/G are definitely gonna happen. R/H is just blatant, in-your-face obvious, and there’s been a ton of symbolism pointing to H/G throughout the books so far. I could go on about this forever, but I don’t want to bore anyone further.
Is Umbridge evil? Not like Voldemort, no. But like Sirius says, the world isn’t divided into good people and Death Eaters. This is one of the most important lessons Harry learns in OotP.
The Marauders were almost certainly all Gryffindors. We know James was—JKR has confirmed this in interviews. It just makes no sense that four people from four (or however many) houses could get together enough to a.) figure out that Remus keeps disappearing b.)sneak out of the dorms on a regular basis for years without their roommates noticing c.)spend time learning how to be Animagi together. No, it’s not technically canon, but I’m pretty sure on this. And that leaves us with at least one Gryffindor who went bad: Peter Pettigrew.
Possibility for a good Slytherin: the boy in the Care of Magical Creatures class who was able to see the Thestrals. Harry didn’t know his name—which means he’s probably never attacked or antagonized Harry and his friends. He’s seen someone die—maybe that’s given him some perspective on life and empathy for others. Could this be the mysterious Blaise Zabini who was sorted with Harry and then never heard from again?
Just a nitpick–The hat never actually tried to put Harry in Slytherin. It said he would do well there, but it never said that was where it really wanted to put him—Harry interrupted it both during the sorting and during CoS when he put it back on his head in Dumbledore’s office before it could finish what it was saying.
I seriously doubt that James came from a Dark family. Maybe his grandparents—maybe. But remember: Sirius was practically adopted by the Potters. Surely he wouldn’t run from one Dark family because they were Dark into yet another Dark family. Also, it seems James’ parents (and Lily’s) all died sometime after they left Hogwarts, but before or very soon after Harry was born. James & Lily both lost their parents at a very young age—they couldn’t have been out of Hogwarts more than 3 or 4 years when Harry came along. Sounds to me like they were targeted by Voldemort, for some reason we have yet to discover.
Anybody notice Mark Evans, mentioned in the first chapter as one of Dudley’s targets for bullying? Evans…coincidence he has the same last name as Harry’s mother? Coincidence he shows up in the same book in which we first learn Lily’s last name? He just happens to be ten years old (and JKR just happens to make sure to mention this), making him ready to receive his Hogwarts letter in Book Six. Hmmm…
Okay, I’ll shut up now.
I don’t think it’s a coincidence that she mentions a Mark Evans, age ten, who also happens to live near Harry. Perhaps he is being protected as well? If that’s the case, why hasn’t Petunia mentioned him? It would be exciting to realize that Mark might be the only family member (besides Petunia) that Harry has left.