New sink failed

Factual Questions
1

I got a new marble counter and the sink is a large rectangular deep one.

It detached on the front 2 weeks or so ago. They (the stone company is responsible) have been saying they need to remove the garbage disposal to do a fix. I said they should pay for it. They said it’s not their policy. They asked for photos and then said they would come and see if they could do it, on Monday anyway. They obviously know it could fail right?

So it’s Saturday night and the thing dropped into the cabinet. I don’t know if the water fell through the floor. These sinks are held on by small metal clamps. I have never seen something less trustworthy. I have also never had a sink that even was within the ballpark of falling into the cab.

I thought sinks were sealed. No it’s just some clamps.

I managed to bail the sink. I’ll guess I’ll wait til monday to use the kitchen.

2

Those metal clips are standard for what it’s worth. They need to be installed properly though.

3

Have you had other solid counter tops? Formica counter tops are set in from above and (generally) don’t have the ability to fall through.

Yes, the garbage disposal would likely have to be removed to do any work on the sink. Especially, if the sink needs to me moved more than an inch or two. However, after you’ve removed/installed one more than once or twice, you can do it with your eyes closed. It’s literally one plumbing connect that’s usually hand tight and one connection to the flange on the sink that can be done with the tool that comes with it. The dishwasher and electrical connection can stay attached. Dropping the disposal takes 5 minutes.

As for how the sink is attached. I’ve never set one in like that. I know there’s clips, and clearly yours broke, but if it were me, I’d find out if the best practice/industry standards involve using an adhesive as well. If they do and if that step was skipped, yeah, that’s on them to ‘make you whole’.

I think you need to see how much, if any, water damage there is. If you can dry it and nothing is damaged. I’d probably get them to fix it and be done with it, assuming they do it right this time. If there’s damage to the cabinet, I’d hound them to take care of that. It was damaged due to something they did incorrectly, it should be on them to repair it. If they put up any resistance, you might say something like “I paid $xxxx for this, I shouldn’t have to pay more because if failed and caused a bunch of water damage.”

Worse comes to worse, fix it yourself or have another company come and do the repairs and take them to small claims. Either they’ll pay for it or you’ll be out 60 bucks for trying. Personally, I’d take the risk.

BTW, take pictures (the fallen sink, broken plumbing water damage) and document everything (phone calls, what you/they said, what steps you’ve taken etc) before you do anything.

PS, I don’t want to victim blame, but once it starting failing, you probably shouldn’t have used it anymore. However, if they mention that, play dumb. Just say 'I don’t know anything about plumbing, I called you as soon as it happened, no one said anything about not using it anymore."

4

Did the stone company or did you install the sink?

Whoever installed the sink should be responsible.

5

I thought they used some sort of super-duper construction adhesive/sealant as well as the clips?

6

Well two things here: They right away said “we don’t do things under the sink. You have to do them” meaning the water shut off, and the disposal. I wish I knew how easy it was. I just don’t. They have agreed to try. They are going to be surprised. I don’t even know if they can do anything with that mess now under their restrictions.

and second: I have been trying to get them out here. They have not treated it as an emergency. They didn’t advise anything, so I kept washing my dishes. I don’t know if this is an emergency unless the pro tells me. You might.

I suppose the first thing I should have done was make an appt and worry about the restrictions after. I just didn’t understand the rules. And it took a lot of phone chat, also with my super too to know what the hell they wanted. I’m not handy and a new home owner if it’s not obvious.

7

On Youtube it looks like that. I’m thinking I don’t like this company at all. Maybe I’ll get a plumber to check the job they did. The sink edge has no material. The underside has a layer of something. It only lasted 5 months.

I never had an undermount before. I would rather have my drop in back.

8

Were they the ones that connected the disposal/drain/supply when it was installed or did you call someone else for that?
If they did that when they installed the sink and counter, they can certainly do it again.
But in either case, even if they don’t do plumbing, that would make sense when they installed the counter. Now that their work has damaged things, it’s up to them to make it right.
If I’m painting your living room and dump over a 5 gallon bucket of paint, I can’t shrug my shoulders and say ‘sorry, I don’t install carpet’. Of course it’s on me to replace it. (Even more so if the home owner told me 10 minutes earlier that the open bucket of paint looks like it’s about to fall over. )

I think the first thing you need to do is assess the damage. I think you need to take a look under the sink and see if any copper is bent, if any PVC is cracked, if the sink is damaged in anyway (especially around drain connections where it may have bent), if the cabinet under the sink is damaged (physically) from the sink falling and if there’s any water damage or mold.

I also think, if it looks like this could be expensive to fix, consider calling someone to fix get it fixed. Handyman, contractor, plumber, someone to fix the cabinets, whatever you need. When you get all the bills, give them to the people that installed the countertop and explain that this is how much you had to pay to repair damages caused by their shoddy installation. Shoddy installation that they refused to fix when you called them and let them know that it appeared to be letting loose from the underside of the counter and they refused to fix when it fell X days later and damaged your house.
I’m thinking they’d pay it, knowing that most people would consider this one last chance before taking them to court…which is what you should do next, IMO.

It may also be worthwhile to talk to a lawyer. They can tell you if you have a winnable case and/or write a letter for you. This whole meeting, including them writing a letter for you will probably be a $100ish and will hopefully get things resolved without the need to go to court.
And, of course, there’s also one more option. Have a handyman fix it, pay them put it all behind you.
One last thing. In the OP you stated that they said ‘that’s not their policy’. Policy on what? Did something you signed state that they’re not responsible for damage due to poor installation or we’re they asking you to get all the plumbing disconnected before they come out and do the repair?
In either case, I agree with you that it should have been on them to fix this without you having to pay a third party. They could certainly have set up a time to have a plumber come with them. But, again, this is where it might be worth having a lawyer take a look at anything you signed and fire off a letter to them.

9

I’m guessing what you’re seeing is just caulk. If it’s squishy and you can peel it off without too much effort that’s all it is (construction adhesive is hard when it cures). It’s not meant to be glue, it’s meant to keep water from getting out and dripping under the sink.
It’s the clips that hold the sink in place.

At this point, that’s certainly an option, especially if the hole for the sink is a standard size. Either get them to fix what you have now, then install a drop in sink or tell them not to bother, clean up their mess and install the sink you want.

10

Very much this.

We recently had our bathroom re-modeled. During the demo, the worker got pretty aggressive with the sledgehammer and did damage to our living room (on the other side of the wall he was working on).

They are bathroom guys, not living room guys, but the lead guy acknowledged the damage, said they’d make it right, and did.
mmm

11

The shop and purchase of the counter was in Home Depot. The stone company just came with the deal AFAIR. I have not got a written contract with them that I know about. Just a sheet on the care of your counter.

So it’s sunday and I can’t reach HD or GS. But I am looking for a contract or warranty on their work to read it. I’m going to work the home depot angle hard.

I am new at this. If a “stone” company puts in a sink and counter I don’t expect it to fail. Sinks and counters don’t fail in my world. THis undermount thing is new to me. I am not sure I trust them to make a secure situation out of it. I wish I knew the reality of it before deciding.

This stone company is acting like mickey the dunce. THey had to have seen this before especially being as careless in some installations as they seem to be.

The sink fell on top of the disposal. And some draining of the sink came out in the cabinet just after. Meaning some seal got broken. And the Disposal itself might be broken. No way I’m going to know before a technician looks at it.

I left them a message that it failed and they need a tech tomorrow.

Their policy is not to touch the workings. I think that the plumbing was done by my handyman contractor. Their warranty I want to see.

12

The bolded part is really scary to me. It’s a very big square sink. I have a feeling that these work better with less volume and weight on the load.

13

Go through HD to get this fixed. Don’t contact the installers anymore. HD will be on the hook to make this right since they are the ones who selected that incompetent installer. Make sure HD knows you are upset and aren’t opposed to taking them to court to get the shoddy work done by their subcontractor fixed properly.

I would also recommend that you make them have a plumber fix the drains and whatever other pipes broke when the sink fell down. I would not trust some random counter installer to replumb the drain pipes of the sink. You’d have no assurance that it was done right. If it’s done wrong, you can end up with drainage problems and leaks.

14

I like the way you talk. I’m going down there right now.

Thanks to you and all the good advice on here.

15

What is the sink made of? Are the anchor bolts still in the stone or did they pull out?

Dennis

16

It’s metal. There are 3 clamps on both sides of the well still there, but worse for whatever happened.

I noticed a strange phenomenon over the last months. I will pour boiling water from my pasta or cooking into the sink and it makes a groaning noise, like the heat made something metal bend or strain. It’ hard to imagine it is the impact of the water, and the sink would not be laden or full then.

Keep in mind that this is the bottom of the sink not the top edge.

17

I absolutely agree here. (And now is the time to get this changed!

P.S. Who in the hell still has a garbage disposal? In 2019?

Around here (south Minneapolis) throwing perfectly good compost down the sewer would get you called an environmental criminal! I don’t think the City even allows disposals to be installed any more.

18

Hm. That’s a new one on me. I’ll wait for the swat team.

19

THis morning they are hassling with me about that since it was 5 months and not immediately, that may mean it was the disposal that vibrated the sink loose.

I said I held them responsible. They are going to get the boss to call me.

THey were trying to tell me that it was my obligation to prepare the area before the appt, and I was telling him it was broken. He didn’t want to hear anything, just say it and hang up.

How much time do I have to give them to fix something before I just have it done, pay for it and sue them?

Because I probably need to change the type of sink. It sounds like they wont be on board with any changes. They’ll use it as an escuse to bail. I may need to go in to HD in person today. Can’t get the pro desk on the phone.

20

Those clips are standard as far as I know. I’m sure there are all kinds of styles of clips, but they’re the norm. If you go to youtube or google images and look up how to install an undermount sink, I think you’ll find the same thing.
Note:I’m not saying they did the job correctly, just that they used the standard hardware.

A lot of people, possibly even ‘most’ people. At one point having a garbage disposal was code where I live. The idea being that they wanted the food matter going down the drain where the city could remove/compost/make Milorganite from it rather than it ending up in a landfill.

Regarding changing it to a different sink. I couldn’t blame them for not installing a different sink. That’s why I mentioned upthread that if you wanted a new sink, you should have them fix this one, then install the new one.

As for how long you should wait, it sounds like you’ve been dealing with this for quite a while.
I think when the boss calls you, as soon as you can get a word in, just say ‘so, are you going to come out and fix this?’. If he says no, just say ‘okay, that’s all I needed to know, thanks’ and hang up. Don’t threaten to sue, don’t tell him you’re going to have someone fix it and he’s going to have to pay etc. Just get it fixed and either file a claim in small claims court or go talk to a lawyer and have them write up a letter demanding payment.