Yeah, I’ve seen…
I’ll just scroll past those and only engage actual human beings.
Let’s see here. <crunches some numbers> By this logic <crunches some more numbers> approximately <carries the 1> :
2,343,343 die in the US every year from **access **to healthcare. OMZ GOD!
It is clearly evident that **access **to healthcare is far more dangerous than **lack **of healthcare, and we should ban it immediately.
stupdity trumps sarcasm.
Well see he got married at 18 because he was eager and ready to have sex, but didn’t want it to be pre-marital sex. No one ever taught them about birth control either, just abstinence, so he and his new bride had loving, married, unprotected sex and she got pregnant even though they couldn’t afford it but babies are the best thing ever and they’d all go to hell if she got an abortion so they had a baby instead of an appendectomy and he died.
polite cough
LOL. And this is why we need that 10 minute edit window. Also so I can troll and then erase things like a ninja poster.
Look, just as the anecdotes that some people died without healthcare aren’t important, neither is it important that someone can come up with scenarios where it’s the appendicitis guy’s fault he died.
The only important thing in that article is that if you have no healthcare in the US, you are 40% more likely to die than if you did.
Just like with smoking, you never know if one person’s lung cancer was caused by smoking. Nevertheless, any reasonable person knows that smoking causes lung cancer.
I’m ignoring my own advice, but I want to clarify something for Curlcoat, and it will be my only word on the subject, directed towards her. I don’t want free healthcare. I recognize there is no such thing. I don’t want someone else to buy health insurance for me. I don’t expect to sit back and have someone else to take care of alllll my responsibilities.
What I want is to not have the game stacked against me from the very beginning. My boys and I are on Medicaid now. I’m starting school on October. It’s a worthwhile line of work, and something I would be very good at, but it often works on an ‘independent contractor’ basis. This means that once I finish school, I may be at that odd in-between point where I don’t qualify for Medicaid, but I also can’t buy a decent policy. I’ve looked at what’s available for those buying independently, and it’s ridiculous. I fear that working hard in school and maximizing my earning potential may actually reduce the quality of healthcare my boys receive. Sometimes I wonder if I am truly doing what’s best for them.
And let’s assume that I were to find a decent insurance policy. What if one of my boys gets sick or injured? What’s to stop them from simply canceling my insurance on a technicality, or deciding that I’m up to my lifetime cap and cut me off? From the examples we are seeing all over the country, nothing. And then, I can’t buy insurance for love or money anywhere in this country. Not at any price that’s reasonably affordable anyway. So, Curlcoat, one can be responsible, buy insurance, and still lose this game. I’m scared for my boys sometimes. I worry that with prices out of control they way they are, they will grow up and be priced out of the market entirely, through no fault of their own. The decisions we are making about this issue today will greatly affect them in the future. It can determine whether or not quality healthcare will ever be a realistic goal for them. Therefore, we all need to think carefully.
And no, I will not justify the decision to have my boys to you. I won’t apologize for their existence. I won’t explain how we came to be here. I may need taxpayer help now, but that does not render their existences worthless. They’ll be raised well, and I think their chances of giving back to society are great.
So there you go. I want a fair game, that’s all. I’m willing to buy into a public option, a co-op, whatever. As long as it’s a viable solution, guarantees my boys good care, is reasonably priced, and holding down costs, I’m willing to sacrifice any entertainment costs to buy into it. The current system is doing none of those things. If no reform passes, I may throw my money into a hole, with no guarantee of real return. My kids deserve a better future than that, and that is why I fight for healthcare reform.
I hope that clears up some of your misconceptions.
It’s actually a bit reassuring, attitudes like curlcoat’s, though he/she is hardly the only one to hold it. It shows a core of humanity, however small and deeply buried within the jaundiced layers of a curmudgeon’s exoskeleton. Its bearers simply can’t accept that there are, in this Greatest Nation on Earth Allelujah Allelujah, people actually dying needlessly of curable ailments, children actually starving because of poverty and neglect, fellow Americans actually struggling to barely to eke out an existence within the world where they’ve unceremoniously dropped. It’s too painful, too unthinkable, assuaged only by the gentle balm of instinctual cognitive dissonance.
Contrasted with the true misanthrope—who readily acknowledges that sure, some people are poor and they die, so what? Fuck 'em—they cling to the gauzy fantasy of a level playing field for all, a world where nobody starves unless he really wants to, and nobody’s truly poor, but only manages poorly his personal wealth portfolio. Cause and effect: if you’re in dire straits, just retrace your steps back to the point where it becomes your own goddamned fault. Toddlers, get Mommy (or if he’s still around) Daddy to help you.
After all, they crow, I worked hard to get where I am; isn’t everyone given the same chances? The poor aren’t poor because life dealt them a shit sandwich, they’re just goofing off while I (well, okay, my husband) makes regular contributions of brow-sweat to society. Cry me a river, we’ve got flood insurance.
Wikipedia has an entry on this kind of thinking:
Hmm. The fightback continues.
45,000? Is that all? Sounds reasonable to me. Keep the freeway moving faster.
OK, I am totally kidding. I do wonder, though, how many of those 45,000 really died from a lack of insurance or would they have died anyway (even if a short while later) if they actually had insurance.
As for the appendicitis guy, that’s a tough one to swallow. My Dad and my brother and a few friends all had it, and the symptoms are quite pronounced and painful. How do you ignore that?
I thought my appendicitis was indigestion. My husband basically forced me to go to the ER. I had insurance, but it was crappy, and I didn’t want to pay hundreds of dollars for what turned out to be gas. In retrospect, I could have easily been that statistic.
Given the country spends this much on healthcare, you might hope life expectancy would be better than this.
How, since you had insurance, and the statistic was about people who didn’t have insurance?
I wonder-how much of this is actually spent on healthcare itself, and not on insurance skimming?
You’re hurting your own side. Now you’re forced to admit there are people who have health insurance but still die because they’re worried about the cost of treatment.
What deeply irritates me about the politics of curlcoat, et al, is just how pathetically low reaching their goals are. Personally, I find they stink of failure.
Theirs is the argument of people who have managed to scrape so very little out of life that they are terrified they might have to share. They concoct bizarre scenarios where having children should only be an option if you earn x per month. Frankly, it’s fucking terrifying. Means based eugenics…how the fuck does anyone argue that without apologising?
I honestly cannot, try as I may, put myself in their shoes. You basically have to be in a position where you’ve achieved enough to scrape a healthcare policy, but so very little that you’re then worried your own entitlement will be diluted through other people being covered. Seriously, how precarious does your own achievement have to be that you become so worried the state might want to look after those less well off than you.
Worse though is the way they try to justify their fears, with claims that people less fortunate than them are just feckless. I mean, are you really so stupid that you feel all that is good in your life has been purely down to yourself? I mean, really? Fuck, I’ve got an incredibly enviable lifestyle, and in making that happen I worked 70 hour weeks for many a year…but I still know I got lucky. I know people who worked harder who fared worse. I’ve seen myself lose hands when I’ve made the right decision, and win them when I made a bad call.
And that’s where I get confused. You’re finding the intersection point of people who’ve got just enough that they’re terrified their entitlement will be reduced if the state treats others for free, with people who are so narcissistic that they feel anything they have they earned without any luck. Surely that level of failure should be a tiny minority?
No, I’m not. Talk about moving the goalposts.
The study was a Federal study run by the CDC over a 12 year period. It simply took results of those who were insured and those who were not and tracked them. I suppose they did not consider how many chose death over money. They did not try find a way they could to justify their deaths as due to their own lack of values and inability to make smart decisions like you people. Yep, they were just losers getting what they deserve.
I am continually amazed by what people can justify. Do you ever wonder how many kids are uninsured? These are people dying before their time because they could not afford health insurance. If you can find a way to blame them that gives you comfort have at it.
If you go to a hospital without insurance they can refuse to treat you. If you are very ill, they have to stabilize you. They do not have to be involved in a treatment regimen. They will hound you with dunning and bill collectors afterward. You can not afford hospital care without insurance. If you can not afford insurance you will suffer.