You know seeing the latest episodes of, CurlCoat: the Heartless Evil Bitch Chronicles, has left me think this show has attempted jumping the shark. Then didn’t make it, falling in with the the shark, and then couldn’t afford a doctor for sharkbite treatments.
Ironically, I’m watching Jaws right now. There’s a medical idea, if you just die we don’t have to waste money treating you!
CurlCoat, ol’ chum, want to go boating?
I can’t help thinking of The Pogues.
At the time I was arguing with curlcoat
And she was the meanest bi-yotch that you have ever seen
And to lose a single penny would grieve her awful sore
And she was a miserable bollocks and a bitch’s bastard’s whore
:rolleyes:
I have a husband with a middle class income. Yes, we are careful with money, which includes not wanting any more of it wasted by the government. I am not “too good” to work, I am disabled. Which is kind of immaterial since, when I was working, we paid out more in taxes than my before tax salary.
So, why is it that you wish for us to be dead broke, but God forbid anyone go without full medical care?
I couldn’t care less. I am just wondering why it is that there is so much demand for the middle class to keep paying out until we run out of money and become poor. Apparently it is one of two things - either you have no clue about what is happening to the middle class, or you don’t think that it is “fair” that anyone has anything that is better than what anyone else has. Gosh, how dare we work hard and earn some of the comforts of life!! We must atone by handing all of our extra money to those who have no plan and no clue.
Or not.
That’s the point - people who have insurance tend to go to the doctor when they don’t really need to. Particularly children - their parents run them in for viruses, mild sprains and all of the other things that end up boiling down to “take two aspirin and rest”. A UHC isn’t about just keeping people alive, it’s about paying for all of those doctors visits that really didn’t need to be made, it’s about paying for things that are not and never will be life threatening.
Because it was done to death in the other thread, which I have forgotten the name of. It might have been the “Anything else you assholes want” thread. I’m sure someone here will love to refer you to it. I admit, I didn’t look at the link because I assumed it was just more of the same - if you want to recap it, I can tell you if it’s been covered ad nauseum already…
Point of information: people who make over $100,000/year are not really middle class.
Please feel free to resume fact-free argument.
So, then, you are not in favor of a UHC either?
See what I said about that above.
All you can see is 45,000 annual fatalities and your first response is to throw money at it, preferably someone elses money. One brief, biased article and you cannot even stop to think something as simple as “would having insurance have made any difference in all of those deaths?” Most of them? Some of them?
Considering those things doesn’t make one evil. It makes one intelligent and attempting to be part of a solution, not just more of the same problem.
Of course, it’s far more fun to insult faceless posters than to think… :smack:
:rolleyes:
Did you know that repeating the same incorrect thing doesn’t suddenly make it correct, right? It has already been proven to you in other threads that X income’s rating as middle class or not depends on the cost of living in the area one lives in. For example, before the real estate crash, we could have purchased two homes with acreage for cash in many non-California places, using just the equity in the 50 year old tract home we currently live in. (Shoot, we probably still can if the prices dropped elsewhere like they did here!)
Things cost a heck of a lot here, so salaries are going to look like riches to folks that live in the midwest. But then, you most likely aren’t paying $3.25 for gas either.
Apparently you didn’t know it either, so I guess that makes both of us. UHC is not going to bump you from upper middle class/lower upper class to poverty. It’s not going to make it hard or impossible for you to pay your mortgage, unless you are living in a house you can’t really afford in the first place. That’s just a fact. But you keep saying it like it’s true. If you’re so upset about what it costs to live where you live? You are worried about making your mortgage if UHC passes? Not going to be able to retire in the manner to which you’ve become accustomed? Move. Otherwise, you are choosing to live in a place that “impoverishes” you and empties out your retirement funds, despite your husband’s six figure salary, which would make you fucking rich in other places. Why should we have any compassion for your bad choices?
Because you are looking for bullshit. You need to believe that I am the scum of the earth to fufill your crazy fantasies. My husband wasn’t mentioned in the first post because he wasn’t relevant to that particular point I was trying to make in that particular post, and yes, he is both of my children’s fathers.
Now I will be bowing out of this thread. I know it isn’t worth it, and this is totally stupid and irrational. She lives in California, is fact free and an idiot, but Curlcoat’s last post had me crying my eyes out. 
She’s truly the meanest bitch I’ve ever tried to reason with. This thread clearly isn’t good for me if it elicits that utterly irrational an emotional response out of me. Being on public insurance doesn’t mean my children won’t be good men or that I am raising them wrong. It’s just so cruel and horrible.
I won’t even be opening this anymore.
Then there’s the fact that you bitch about not having enough money to retire were Congress to grow balls and start charging you and everyone else their fair share of dues to the uber-rich USA club. So I guess you didn’t plan very well, did you? Most of us take the taxes we owe to society into account. Looks like you didn’t, and that makes you a worthless, irresponsible cooze.
It is beyond irresponsible for you to even dream of retiring when you can’t afford to do so. You need to get a job and shut the fuck up. Do you expect me to pay for you and your deadbeat husband to sit around and watch Matlock in your dotage? Fuck that. It’s that kind of ME, ME, ME, ME, ME, attitude that is running this country in to the ground. I’m already paying your disability, and now you expect me to pay for your fat-ass to eat pork-rinds in Florida? What gall you and all the other freeloaders have.
You should have thought about the expenses of retiring and the expenses of living as a free citizen in the USA (taxes) *before *you fantasized about your undeserved retirement. Suck it up and get a job. I’m sick of supporting layabouts like you and that lazy excuse for a “man” you call your husband.
All curlcoat’s weeping about incipient poverty is just from this thread. This is a woman whose husband, by her own admission, makes a six figure salary. The median household income in Orange County is $71,601. That means her husband is making about 50% more than the median income from her area. She’s not middle class. She’s rich, and that’s without anything but SSDI income from her. Yet, she seems to truly believe that UHC is going to cause her to be “dead broke,” “run out of money and become poor,” be unable to pay her mortgage or her bills, and “go broke in retirement.” I would call this hyperbole or flat-out bullshit, but I think she truly believes it.
Unless she is much less careful with money and much more of a profligate spender than she claims, none of these fears is founded. She reminds me of a cat I adopted off the street when he was starving. Afterwards, he just could not get enough food. He was paranoid because of his history of deprivation, so he was obsessed with holding onto that which he lacked, and lived in fear of returning to that awful life. curlcoat’s about as rational as that cat. She grew up in poverty, and she’s DAMNED if she’s going back to that. She looks at poor people with hungry babies, and sick people who want health care, and she doesn’t see people mostly doing the best they can in true need-- all she sees is her own impending impoverishment. It’s sad, really, because she truly believes that paying for UHC is going to make her lose her house, her retirement, all the comforts she feels she deserves after her shitty childhood.
It’s not going to happen, curlcoat. No one is going to negate all the money your rich husband has earned to that makes you both comfortable. It’s an irrational fear that makes you penurious and hateful. All those poor, hungry babies and sick people are not going to take the food out of your mouth or put you in the poorhouse in your old age. You have made it. You are safe, and you are damned lucky. Count your blessings and stop begrudging other people everything, including their children. Fucking relax and get a grip.
::smacks head for even THINKING about entering this ‘debate’:: :smack:
curlcoat et al, did you ever consider that having a UHScheme might actually lower your medical insurance outlays, and thus make you financially better-off than you are presently? I dunno what you are currently paying in monthly premiums, but as has been mentioned up-thread aways, some UHS’s (eg, Australia) flog a percentage of your annual taxable income to pay for our UHS called Medicare.
FYI, my taxable income last financial year was app $32k, and my Medicare contribution was app $500…the percentage DOES go up depending upon your income, but it’s never too burdensome. It’s certainly not the best system in the world with sometimes hefty waits for non-urgent treatment, but I know that if I break my arm, get appendicitis, suffer a heart attack, have something stuck in my eye or get diagnosed with depression or cancer, the medical treatment I will recieve will be immediate, world-class and I won’t get a nasty bill at the end. I also have the choice of taking on private health insurance to cover those non-urgent medical conditions, but that is a choice and not a necessity to be ensured basic medical care here in Aus.
If I go to the MD for more trivial matters, I might have to pay some , but many Doctors just charge Medicare for your consultation and then I have NO out-of-pocket expense to deal with. If I go to the MD and my condition is serious enough to warrant a visit to a specialist, I have the choice to attend a private specialist (and pay some ) or attend one of the clinics at our Public Hospitals (which are for the most part teaching-hospitals, and thus pretty whizz-bang in terms of their treatment programs).
Let me give you some examples:
A few years ago I was diagnosed with a serious eye condition. Within days I was admitted to a world-renowned Eye and Ear Hospital, had surgery to rectify the problem, and have since been glaucoma-free. My contributions to Medicare ensured I had the best treatment available, and that it cost me nothing after the event.
Some years later I was diagnosed with yet ANOTHER serious eye condition, and was treated by the same hospital. Sometimes weekly visits over a period of nearly four years saved my sight, and although no surgery was needed, many medications were dispensed. Had I needed to pay for those consultations and meds, I would have to have chosen to forsake my vision…no WAY I could have afforded such care.
In between my kids suffered various ailments and accidents, some necessitating hospital treatment, and they were all given the best treatment available
However, since then I have rarely needed to visit a Dr, and my kids are now paying their own Medicare Levies, so my (and their) contributions are helping others to obtain the care that we have been extended over the years. It’s not a welfare gesture, it’s what people in communities do to ensure that their society is healthy AND wealthy.
Nobody goes bankrupt in Australia from paying for medical treatment, and nobody dies for lack of financial access to medical care.
Given a choice of health-care options, I’ll opt for mine cobber. 
Curlcoat, do you and your husbands combined income exceed $350,000 a year? If not, you won’t even have to pay an extra penny more in taxes than you are now. From the actual text of the House bill:
I’m looking at my current paycheck. Let me do some calculations:
Medical: 4.03%
Dental: .77%
Medicare: 1.36%
Right now I’m directly paying 6.16% of my income to some form of medical insurance.
I’m also paying 7.15% of my income to Federal taxes, a percentage of which indirectly goes towards medical insurance for the currently uninsured who needs medical treatment, and other such things.
I guess we could round it all up to 7% and call it about accurate. I’ve never actually done this calculation before today so this is kind of informative for me.
So what do I get out of it? A medical insurance that limits the doctors I can go to, the hospitals I can go to, copayments that rose anywhere from 25% to 300% from the 2008-2009 FY. We just took a trip to the ER last week for a few hours and so I’ll be glad to report back on what % I’m going to be paying out of pocket.
I can tell you that my dental insurance works only for 100 dentists in the metro area (else they don’t pay a dime) and on major procedures they’ll chip in 50%, leaving you to pick up thousand dollar bills on your own.
It’s crappy insurance all the way around. But it’s the only insurance offered by my employer and so it becomes my only option. Going for insurance on my own would only result in more $ for less in services.
So let me now get back to your question. What percentage would I spend out of my own pocket? Let’s say 12%. I’d happily (no, more than happily) increase my burden by removing 5% of my hard earned cash. And hell, I’m not even going to do it for the warm fuzzy feeling of helping all the downtrodden of America. That’s just a side benefit.
I’d do it to remove half of the paperwork of the system.
I’d do it to remove all that out of pocket expenses the insurance companies nickel and dime (or quarter and half dollar) out of the system.
I’d do it to give me and my family an honest to God safety net if something catastrophic happened. I mean, honestly, isn’t that what insurance is for? You pay and pay and pay and are happy to do it because you know you’ll be covered if the worst strikes you?
I know that doesn’t happen in the current system and yes, I’d pay 5% more to ensure that it does.
So in summary I’d pay over 1% more than any other first world country in the entire world to make sure that me and my family are REALLY protected.
Oh yeah, and to help those unwashed masses too.
I would pay five percent of my income to deny curlcoat medical insurance.
Look, arguing with that silly whore is a waste of time. She’s stupid and can’t assimilate new knowledge. The bitch is still sputtering the same ignorant stances she did in her first health care thread.
She doesn’t understand that insurance isn’t available at any rate to some Americans. She doesn’t understand that insurance isn’t affordable to some Americans. She doesn’t understand that insurance can, and does fail to pay claims when it can get away with it. She doesn’t understand a lot of things, harping on it won’t help.
For those interested if you have an I-Pod go to Podcasts for C-Span’s program Q&A with Brian Lamb. The book The Healing of America is featured on the free one hour podcast. The books compares our health care system with other advanced countries by the author who visited many countries to see first hand how their systems work. A good iserious n depth discussion.
One topic mentioned in the program was how people who cannot get insurance often die prematurely form chronic diseases like Lupus. Lupus can be managed with medications but the high cost is out of reach for thousands of people.
You’re right, but it’s not because she’s intellectually incapable of understanding. It’s because she’s got some serious paranoia about her own financial security, and it’s made her view anyone needy with grave suspicion and contempt, as if them getting what they need will make it impossible for her to hold onto what she has (just like that stray cat, growling over his food dish even though there were 4 other food dishes). I would go so far as to say it’s a psychological problem that she has. More to be pitied than scorned, though you’re right that arguing with her is a waste of time. Nothing is going to allay that insecurity; it’s deeper down than facts can penetrate.
I know this is the Pit and all that but do we really want things like this happening in the SDMB? Curlocoat’s behavior is inexcusable.
Sadly enough, it seems she is representative of some percentage of the American public whose views she shares. I’d like to believe that the percentage is small, perhaps on the order of the percentage of Americans who still think Bush was a fabulous President, or the percentage who believe they have been abducted and anally probed by aliens.
(No, I am not arguing for an equivalency here. There may indeed be some overlap among these three groups, but not a necessary correlation. That would be topic for another thread! :p)
I too find it revolting to attempt debate with her given her level of cognitive dissonance and her complete lack of human empathy. (And no, Rubystreak, I don’t grant her the easy excuse that she is compensating for some real or imagined early deprivation.) But people like this are apparently numerous enough that their deliberate refusal to accept or understand facts and their petulant outbursts are affecting actual decision making in this country.
They’re all around us! We might just as well deal with them (or at least be reminded of them) here, lest we become complacent and fail to overcome them IRL.
I’m trying to find a way to be compassionate towards someone whose life experience has obviously affected her so deeply that it’s impaired her ability to empathize with others in need. I think she’s full of fear, and it makes her hateful. I know, this armchair psychoanalysis which will likely be sneered at by curlcoat and her opponents alike, so I’m not sure why I’m bothering.
My point is, you’ll never “deal” with her because nothing any of us can say will penetrate far enough to affect her. Her insecurity is too great and too deep-rooted. Fortunately, she doesn’t vote. All she does is say mean, hateful shit on the internet, so while she is hurting people like torie, which is unfortunate, she isn’t having much of an effect on the rest of the world. This is her only outlet. Perhaps we should deny it to her by all ignoring her?