New Way of Dealing With Depression?

I was showing signs of depression in my teens. It manifested itself in over-senitivity and guilt. That was in the late 1950’s and early 1960’s.

When I was twenty, it was diagnosed and I was given electro-convulsive shock treatments. (I can’t keep up with the latest names.) They worked but left me dazed and erased a lot of memory. ** These treatments are not as damaging now.**

Through the years I’ve tried various meds with varying levels of success. Usually, I would feel better and then stop taking the pill. Then I wouldn’t recognize depression when I had it again. I would see it as personal weakness and a character flaw. I saw myself as unloveable and immature – unable to handle emotional pain. Several times I was hospitalized.

In 1989 it was destroying my health and my will to live. I had to stop teaching and take a disability pension. I was introduced by my physician to the right therapist for me. (Sometimes you have to do quite a search.) The anti-depressant that he put me on is prozac. I see him once a month or so for about 20 to 30 minutes. Even these brief counselling sessions have changed my life! The combination of the two – medicine and a little counselling – has been affordable and freeing.

For the first time since childhood, I felt real. It has side-effects, but for me they have been trivial compared to the relief that I have gotten. I will probably take this medication for the rest of my life and be grateful. I have a life. The meds allow me to be me. I am much stronger than I thought. More level-headed. More centered.

The most notable side-effects are hard to distinguish from some of the effects of the illness itself: lack of concentration and short term memory loss. I can live with that.

But I can draw no firm conclusions for everyone else based on my own experience.

Feelings of helplessness, apathy and numbness are symptoms of depression. They are not learned responses in general.

Very understandable and commendable. Just remember that stress-induced depression is just one kind of depression. What happens if you already have chronic depression and then have stress-induced depression on top of that?

Numbness is a way of dealing with grief sometimes and helps you to go through the motions in dealing, for example, with the loss of a loved one. But when depression itself reaches a state of numbness, that is very deep depression. I used to refer to it as “like being wrapped in cotton batting.” At its worst, I would just “go away” emotionally and intellectually. Even to the point of mutism.

Stoneburg, I am glad that you are taking action now before your ability to think clearly about what you need is undermined by your illness. I will be thinking of you and wishing you good courage.

Just to clarify, science is still unable to specifically state a cause and effect relationship between the SSRI’s and the “paradoxical” effects. But the government is urging that both children and adults taking the drugs be watched closely for signs of agitation and suicidal inclinations. (In my own opinion, early signs of agitation soon after taking the medication are the most telling. Suicidal thoughts are a symptom of depression so it is hard to tell if depression is causing it or the medication.) At any rate, negative changes after taking SSRI’s are warning signs.

I would say that if depression were always a serotonin-deficiency disease, SSRI’s would probably have a better track record.

As always, I have a high regard from your knowledge about mental illness and your efforts on behalf of those who have also been victims of the system.

I forgot to put a plug in here for Cecil’s place.

We 'dopers have an online support group for those of us dealing with depression and depression related mental illnesses (anxiety, PTSD, etc.). It is through Yahoo! groups so you have to sign up with them but it is well worth it. We are not therapists or professional counsellors. We are a caring group pf people who are all going through the same thing. They have helped me quite a bit.

I invite you all to come visit.

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/Cecils_Place/

I “dealt with it” for 35 years. Did meds for 1 year (when life got rough for different reasons) and stopped ASAP because I could feel NOTHING. I Deal with it again. Getting active can be a huge help depending on your pathology–some people get down easy and others are depressed to the point of actually being crazy. They could benefit from meds.

IMHO “Embracing your depression” is an impressively callous suggestion. :mad:

I don’t know why you want to word it that way. I think the way I said it makes more sense; depression is corellated with sub-normal levels of serotonin. What purpose does it serve to say it’s “no more than a theory”? You could say that about virtually everything we know. What isn’t known is why that is the case, so yes, it’s incorrect to say depression is “caused” by low serotonin levels, JUST LIKE it’s incorrect to say diabetes is “caused” by low insulin levels. The treatment for both diseases involves increasing the level of the substance that is lacking, but neither treatment cures whatever the underlying reason is.

Yes, and almost everyone is perfectly willing to take medication when they have a headache, so why do we balk at the idea of taking medication when we have depression?

For the most part, medication is a hit-and-miss affair. Scientists generally do not deduce what medication to use; it’s simply a matter of trial-and-error.

What are you talking about? SSRIs have an excellent track record. They are a vast improvement over the previous generation of anti-depression drugs. They have allowed people to function whose life was literally hell-on-earth without them, and in many cases have even saved lives. No, they don’t always work for everyone; does that mean nobody should be able to benefit from them if they can?

Personally, I think it’s a very important consideration. A friend of mine attempted suicide shortly after starting an anti-depressant drug. Perhaps the evidence for this connection is only anecdotal so far, but I hope that doctors will be watchful of this and avoid the temptation to dismiss it by thinking “Well they would have been suicidal anyway.”

I’ve been through a couple major bouts, and I’ve found that prozac and staying busy have helped immensely. When I got home from the hospital, I just wanted to stay in the house. My husband forced me to go to the grocery store, by myself. I hated him for giving me such a hard time, but damned if he wasn’t right. I was able to see myself as successful and capable and normalcy came back. Sometimes you have to force yourself to do something you don’t want to do. It’s funny how you can actually do things you don’t feel you have the strength to do.

I am clearly in the minority on this, but this is my story:

The first time I went to a shrink, she recommended that I go on anti-depressants. I said no and she seemed very surprised and asked me why. Through tears I told her that it was my battle to fight and that I wanted to get better not because I used drugs but because I WAS better (ie not masking the symptoms but being actually healed). I told her that if there was a way that I could learn to not be depressed then that is what I was going to do. She said that she understood but just thought that I was so miserable that drugs would help. I told her that it was ok, being miserable (with a hopeful end in sight) was good for me because that is what made me stop and think what I really wanted out of life and what was important to me. She said that no one had ever told her that before and she kind of admired it and that she would not broach the subject of drugs with me again. (I did tell her that if she saw warning signs in me that concerned her, I would defer to her expertise and take whatever she wanted me to.)

Two years later, I was off therapy all together and have been quite well since then. And the truth is that I did learn a lot from that time. I wouldn’t say I embraced it, but I did feel like I learned the skills necessary to cope with the bad days.

I in no way mean to insult anyone who is on drugs, though. I am just the kind of person who won’t even take an aspirin if I have a headache, so anti-depressants were not in my plan. At the time, my doctor told me I had a “moderate form of clinical depression;” looking back though, and I assume it was pretty mild compared to what some of you have gone through.

Either way, though, I am glad she respected my wished to do it without drugs. I feel bad that not everyone has this option; I know that for some there is no way to be functional without them.

(Of course, because I wasn’t on drugs, people liked to say that well, I couldn’t have been ‘really’ depressed. That part pissed me off to no end.)

The thing is, doctors like to help people.

They aren’t always able to, but it’s what they do for a living, and it kind of frustrates them when they can’t.

For psychiatric ailments, whatever the hell they really consist of (which may not be a unified “thing” even within the same diagnostic category), pharmaceuticals and electroshock and psychosurgery are pretty much what they’ve got in their arsenal. However much some of them as individuals may have a philosophical bent, or a sensitive and empathic manner, they are doctors, practitioners of medicine, people trained in weilding somatic treatment.

And while medication may or may not be the ideal solution for you personally, if you go to them with a complaint that is in essence “of a psychiatric nature”, you’re almost guaranteed to be offered a prescription for a medication.

It’s what they do.

Zoe:

[QUOTE]
When I was twenty, it was diagnosed and I was given electro-convulsive shock treatments. (I can’t keep up with the latest names.) They worked but left me dazed and erased a lot of memory. These treatments are not as damaging now.

[QUOTE]

How can you testify that they aren’t as damaging now? The people we work with who are involuntarily electroshocked nowadays have serious complalints nowadays about what the treatments do to them.

They talk a lot about how they place the electrodes so they only zap through one hemisphere at a time – unilateral. But the evidence that this makes it “safe”, or even meaningfully “safer”, is a long long way from conclusive.

Go to Alta Vista’s Advance Search page and paste this in as your search param:

Read the links. Make up your own mind.

AHunter3, my apologies to you. I used the name Michael because of a brain fart. It’s a link in my mind that goes back 35 years. Sorry. My comments were intended for you.

I have used other sources of information about electric shock (and insulin shock) and I have made up my mind over a period of forty years of change. I will never knowingly agree to it again for myself. If I am “missing in action” for too long, however, I trust my doctor and my family to make that decision for me. I do believe that generally speaking, it is safer than it was.

That is not much help to those whose brains have been damaged even in recent times.

And you can see for yourself that I am a little too absent-minded even for someone of my age and profession.

I will read your link though out of an on-going interest and a respect for you.

Keep up the good work!

Most states now recognize a medical “advance directive” and/or “health care proxy”. We are awaiting a good test case to establish that such directives are binding and valid when issued by psychiatrically diagnosed individuals when they are coherent, saying in effect, “If it should come to pass that I’m found ‘mentaly ill and lacking in judgmental capacity’, here is what I do and do not want done for me”, or, alternatively, “I designate this person as the person to make my health care decisions if I’m deemed unable to do so”.

A close family member suffers from full-on depression.

Having observed what clinical depression can do to someone, how it can be an opportunity for personal growth is beyond me. How much personal growth can you accomplish when you can’t get out of bed? When my family member was in the worst of his depression, there was no productivity. None.

Meds did help this person. They got him to the point where he could get out of bed and recognize that he needed to do something.

This person may always be on the meds. Without them, he simply cannot function in today’s society. I guess you could say that you need to “embrace” depression to the extent that, if its chronic, you need to realize it’s always something you need to manage. Not that life will never be fun and you need to just accept that. Rather, that you need to manage a condition much as those with chronic physical ailments manage theirs.

Has your relative been thoroughly checked for thyroid disorder (including Free T3 and Free T4 as well as TSH)?

AHunter, I think so. I have no idea what the T3 and T4 are, but I know they did some thyroid tests.

I’ve had one major bout with anxiety-induced depression and while I agree that “suck it up” is not the answer, I don’t think the OP’s citation reflects that attitude, and based on what I’ve seen of it (I didn’t follow the link) I think there is some truth to it. Depression IS a part of life, and it CAN BE part of personal growth. I think that our relentlessly upbeat culture wants to call sadness a sickness, tell people to “get help,” and “get over it,” and the drugs are part of the lay attitude that says “suck it up.” “Take your meds,” is a new scornful way to dismiss people’s depression. I am not talking about the drugs themselves, which can be lifesavers (I used them), but the attitudes around depression and how antidepressents play into it. Depression was hard to live through, but one of the most helpful pieces of advice I got was not from a psychologist but a Philosophy professor who told me just that… to be OK with my own depression, that many great writers and thinkers suffered through it and grew from it, and so would I. It was comforting to think that i was having an important life experience. Given the high percentage of people who suffer through some period of depression, including most of the thoughtful/reflective/intelligent people I know, I don’t know that it isn’t. I am not treating this as an either-or thing – I believe that medication can help – but nor am I willing to treat psychological well being as a completely happy=well sad=sick paradigm with nor relationships between experiences and psychological growth. I think it is a shallow mindset that wants only to medicate people’s moods and disregard the importance of such experiences as grief and even misery in becoming mentally mature adults. For people who are going to ask if other illnesses can be part of psychological growth, the answer is “yes.” Recovery literature is filled with such cases.

Read, for example, William James, on his own depression… I think it is called “The Will to Live.”

I was diagnosed with depression at age 13; I am now almost 52. I’ve been on some type of medication most of my life. Chemical treatment for depression was just coming into its own in the 60s and the attitude towards antidepressants was very different than it is today. Many doctors saw them as instant cures; in my first 20 years, I was on Lithium, Librium, Haldol, and even Thorazine at various times … and probably others I don’t recall (for obvious reasons). The stigma attached to psychiatry at that time was such that I never asked for therapy, and no doctor ever suggested it. In my late 20s I was on Amitryptilene, which effectively robbed me of about six years, as I have very little memory of that period of time … after that, on high doses of Prozac.

At 19 I had gone through a horrible experience, which cropped up as Post Traumatic Stress Disorder when I was in my early 40s. After 30 years of various medications, some of which were worse than the depression, I was finally sent to a psychiatrist. Until then I had received no counseling at all … just pill after pill.

Six years of counseling did wonders. I take a low dosage of Paxil now, and a very low dosage of Trazodone, which helps support my serotonin level. For the first time in my adult life I am completely functional and not in some sort of chemical fog. I am “me” virtually for the first time, and it’s a wonderful feeling. I feel cheated, in that I lost so much of my life, not just to the depression, but also to the various “cures.” And yet, the world I live in now was worth the wait.

The point of all this is that there is no one “cure” for depression. The doctors who treated me took a dartboard approach, and I was the target; shame on me for not standing up for myself, I suppose, and yet it’s hard to stand up for yourself when you have no idea who you are! I had to hit the bottom before someone finally pointed me in the right direction, but hey, at least I’ve finally arrived.

If counseling or medication alone doesn’t work for you, be open to alternatives. Don’t give up, don’t stop trying. There IS an answer, for just about everyone.

I was also diagnosed with “moderate” depression, or moderate bi-polar (depending on the doc). I had periods of deep depression, which leveled off into a mood I could deal with, with ocassional bouts of mania, then back to depression again. Tried to kill myself twice.

I worked through it on my own. No meds, just a hell of a lot of determination, and about six years. I still get mild depression (suicidal thoughts are rare) and I can still get pretty damn weird. But it’s not nearly as bad as it used to be.

It hurts (I can’t even describe the pain) when somebody tells me I couldn’t have “really” been depressed. I was there, I’m quite amazed I’m still alive. I’m also annoyed by the “well your imbalance must have just righted itself”. Yah, go ahead and destroy my pride and send me right back where I started. Yeesh. I’m not asking for a frikkin statue or anything.
:rolleyes:

I don’t recommend this for everyone. Especially those with truly severe depression. If meds are right for you, go for it.

I have no idea about all that “embracing your depression” hooey. Me? I prefer living and being happy.
:smiley: