I know that reality isn’t like television, and that a real-life Monica and Rachel wouldn’t be living in a 2,000 square foot loft in Manhattan, considering what they do for a living.
For several years, I lived in a city that has relatively expensive housing – Denver. Salaries are a bit higher there than the rest of the country, but I did live in a much smaller house in a more marginal neighborhood than I would have if I had worked in a similar position in Albuquerque or Salt Lake City. My friends either bought houses before the boom, lived in distant suburbs where housing was a bit more affordable, or lived in smaller spaces than they would have if they lived in another city. Denver wasn’t unaffordable, but it was (and I assume still is, four months after my departure) quite pricey.
I’m wondering how middle-class working professionals – teachers, engineers, urban planners, but not lawyers or folks who got rich with stock options – can afford to live in San Francisco or New York City. Seems like if you’ve got a job that pays $35K somewhere else, which might pay $50K or $55K in the Bay area, housing is still beyond reach. Do you suck it up and live in a studio apartment with five roommates, just so you can enjoy the privilege of living in San Francisco, or do you endure 90 minute commutes? Is everyone in San Francisco wealthy? If the city is so expensive, how can poor folks continue to afford to live there?
I have friends in Manhattan in this situation, and the answer is they either suck it up and have no money after paying their exhorbitant rent, or they live in an apartment newly converted from a walk-in closet. And even then, the rent is outrageous.
I moved to a rural area a few years ago for just this reason. I realized that I could have a higher standard of living for literally less than half of what my city dwelling friends pay for rent. The trade off is that one is not in the thick of things in the city. Fine for me - it’s too noisy. But I can’t pry my friends out of the city despite all the disadvantages to their bank accounts.
A lot of people in the Bay Area live way out and endure horrible commutes, thereby contributing to the fact that traffic routinely comes out in polls as the number one Bay Area problem now.
Most people I know don’t keep cars, so no upkeep or insurance expenses.
Brooklyn often gets you slightly more space for your money, and depending where you work, the commute can be shorter than from other areas in Manhattan.
I’ve noticed that among my friends at least, people live in roommate situations longer than our friends in other cities. Shacking up often happens early in a relationship (again, my ultra-scientific method for this is looking at my NY friends, and comparing to other friends) because the idea of paying two rents can ruin a relationship quicker than leaving the cap off the toothpaste and drinking from the milk carton.
It’s hard, but it’s not crippling. I got used to living in a smaller space.
Incomes are higher because rent is higher, but other stuff is not necesarily higher. Most grocery prices are only slightly higher than back home in Buffalo. I can buy things like produce and fish for less in NY. High end retail stores are higher in NY, but the Galleria Mall (I did that on purpose) is selling the same stuff at the same prices as Macy’s in NY. Stuff-wise, I think I might be making money given my rent-adjusted income rate.
Oops, made a booboo there…
Judging from people’s appearances, I dare say that the answer to your first question is “yes.” Then again, by looking at my friends, I think not. There still are “affordable” housing in the outskirt of the city, but only if you know someone, and don’t mind the neighborhood.
The one constant complain I hear from my city friends is how expensive the rent is. Some of my friends work all day, so much so that they are rarely home. To me, personally, their “homes” are only a place where they can go to have a place to sleep, and store their belongings. I didn’t realize the extend of this until a friend told me to “make an appointment” to visit him!!! And I know the guy for more than 10 years. They don’t seem to realize that they are living from paycheck to paycheck. Those who realize this moved out, way out, of the city already, thereby contributing to the traffic problem.
And don’t start me on the costs of living in Silicon Valley.
I live in L.A., where you need a car and housing is almost as expensive. If you are willing to live in an older building or a crappy area, you can find a place with decent rent. I assume that this carries over to the other cities, as well.
I had a nice 2 bedroom place in the city for $900. Of course, I moved to a nicer area and got a newer apartment that is half the size for $1350.
I’ll get started on living in the Silicon Valley! It sucks!
I live someplace where a studio goes for $800-$1,000 a month. My one bedroom shack is $1200 a month. A two bedroom “starter home” here costs half a million dollars. How do people do it? Well I have had teachers that live in backyard storage shed. I know other people that live in converted closets and the like. Other people just live in ways that they can’t afford. I can’t really afford to pay my rent, but I will find a way. I may be living paycheck to paycheck and I might have to dip into savings. It sucks- but at this point I don’t have much of a choice.
I also agree with Delphica, shacking up is almost an economic neccesity. There is just no justification in paying two rents.
It isn’t this way for everyone. A lot of people live in places that they have owned for a long time- long before prices became completely unlivable. A lot of people also live in rent control apartments. The rest just live on rice and ramen and shell out everything they have to the landlord. And
And yes, no one can afford it. Only 19% of the workers in my town can afford to live here. It sucks. End of story.
when i hear of these prices, i am amazed! we have a medium sized four bedroom ranch home (1800 sq ft, or so)on about a quarter acre in one of the nicer neighborhoods. our house payment, including an escrow for taxes, homeowner’s insurance and a term credit life insurance policy is $608.02 a month.
i am not sure how to compare wages/prices, but burger king pays $8.00 an hour here, so they can get help. ourm last week’s groceries were about $160.00 for a family of four adults.
i guess there are benefits in living in fly over country.
Let’s be accurate here, AWB. Perhaps $90,000 is the average household income (although I’ve checked several online sources and none of them give an average above $80,000), but a single person making $73,000 is doing somewhat better than average in Fairfax County.
I afford living in the north bay area (San Francisco) by having two jobs. My day job is not sufficient to pay my mortgage, let alone living expenses. So I write. A lot. I have two regular writing gigs, and I am seeking at least another one.
I cannot imagine how a new teacher around here would do it. Housing where I live (an hour north of SF) only got outrageous a couple of years ago. My house went up in value 20% in 15 months (before I bought it, natch). I wish I had been here 4 years ago!
AWB and Wendell Wagner, hey, I live in Fairfax County. Mrs. Mojo’s income and mine totaled make just about 90K. So did you mean individual or combined household income? We want to trade up from our townhouse to a larger single-family home without …(Please God! Please, please, God!!! anything but Loudoun!) … without moving to the übersprawl of Loudoun County. I hate Loudoun County. BTDT. Eastern half of Loudoun: insane out-of-control sprawl. Western half: you’re not allowed to live there unless you wear a plastic baseball cap and drive a pickup with a gun rack.
Plus side: our townhouse is now worth nearly double what we paid for it 3 years ago. Downside: single-family home prices are now rocketed through the fucking roof. Wanna try half a mil?
One thing in favor of Fairfax County: it has the highest level of educated people of any county in the entire USA.
Why would you live there? My mom makes less than 20k a year, feeds three of us freeloaders, and has a house big enough for about 8 people (some remodeling would be required). $800 a month for an apartment? Our mortgage is like $430 and we have a seperate garage and a “cottage” on the property. Sure, it could be called a hick town, but who would want to put up with all the crime and traffic in a city? Commuting 35 minutes might be a little inconvinient, but seems well worth it to me.
I don’t know about CA, but NYC is still pretty doable if you pick your commute wisely. There are plenty of places within 45 mins of Midtown Manhattan that aren’t terribly expensive.
If you live in Manhattan itself, it still might take you that long to get to work.
And don’t forget that most of the bigshots who live in Scarsdale have to take the train like everyone else (or sit in bridge traffic).
What’s frightening is that when I lived in Denver, I bought my house – an 850 square foot bungalow in a marginal neighborhood in the West Highlands/Berkeley neighborhood – for $135,000 in February 1999. The previous owner bought the house for $50,000 in 1991. I did some basic renovations – replacing fistures from the 1950s with those more suited to the 1920s, repainted the entire house, stripped woodwork, that sort of thing. I sold the house for $208,000 in February 2001. It was on the market for a little under a week, and there was a bidding war.
What’s scary is that the new owners are going to “pop the top” – add a second floor – and make other major renovations. That’s happening more often than not, and like AWB, I often had feeling of inadequacy when I was living in Denver. Everyone seemed to be making far more money than I did, and I often wondered “where’s it all coming from?” What about folks working behind the counter at Tattered Cover or waiting on tables in a LoDo restaurant – how did they afford to live in Denver? Were they all commuting from the farthest eastern reaches of Saudi Aurora, did they live in rough, yet-to-be-gentrified Capitol Hill apartments, or did they get lucky and buy in a few years earlier? How could so many people afford the $500,000 lofts downtown, and why were they willing to pay that for 1,200 square feet of unfinished space above a noisy bar?
Here in Orlando, $150K will get me about 1,700 square feet in a quite nice neighborhood, granted one that’s in the sprawl of Central Florida and not in some gritty, recently “discovered” urban neighborhood. The remaining profits are going in the bank. I saw various planning jobs advertised in Vail and Aspen, and decided not to apply – didn’t want to go from a two bedroom house to a one bedroom condo, and feel even more inadequate than I felt in Denver.
Well, at least you have savings…My ex, after 3 years of working for a well-known software company in Sunnyvale, and making tons of money, still have a saving account of 41 bucks last time I asked!!! I agree with you, life in Silicon sucks.
You’re also lucky in your choice of housing. I have a friend who’s still looking for a place to live. He told of a studio for rent in Oakland (yes Oakland) which the landlord asks for $1400!!! He said there are none under $1000/month.
I work for the gov., commute everyday from Oakland to Sunnyvale, and am wondering every day (while stuck in traffic) how people could afford to live in Silicon Valley area.
I’m planning to move to Houston (if the “company” agree to transfer me) Whatever you decide, I hope you find your solution soon. I feel for you there, mate.
Everyone I know in this area lives with at least one roomate. My roomie and I share a 2-bedroom, 2 bath, 1100ish sq. ft. apartment in Oakland (across the Bay, just east of San Fran) and we pay $1800 / month (900 per person). It works out well enough, but I could never afford a one bedroom or studio apartment by myself (1000-1200 for the studio, 1300-1400 for the one bedroom place).
A few of my friends just suck it up and actually live with their parents (these are people that are in their mid to late 20’s, mind you). They scrimp and save in the hopes of being able to afford their own home sooner than the rest of us.
I used to live in Queens, NY, and moved out because I just couldn’t afford it anymore. Well, i could aford it, but I sure couldn’t save any money.
Yes, everyday items like clothing and food are pretty much the same as they are everywhere else. What really kills your bottom line, besides rent or mortgage, is stuff like insurance.
I moved to another state, and what I paid to insure my Honda Accord each year in NYC now pays for insurance on two vehicles. Better coverage, too.
My niece who lives on Long Island pays rent that is 3x more than what I pay in mortgage on a 2400 sq ft house. Some of my friends who have houses on Long Island pay more for monthly property taxes than I pay in mortgage. My brother does catering, and the only way he can afford his apartment in Manhattan is because he won some kind of rent-control lottery thing (it was a new building).
I loved growing up in NYC, and wouldn’t trade it for anything. However, it’s too damned expensive to live there. I never thought about it much when I was up there, but after moving, I realized how ridiculous it was to stay for as long as I did. Only in the five years since I moved have I been able to start saving money.
Chelsea, NYC checking in here. I afford it because I fall outside the parameters of the OP:
I’m a lawyer. For most of my career I haven’t been that well-paid on the scale of lawyers, but nevertheless I’ve been doing ok.
I’m single. One of the notorious gay urban professionals who live carefree and childfree and cause rampant gentrification in every neighborhood we touch.
I bought my apartment four years ago. It is now worth between two and three times what I paid for it.
Said apartment is tiny. 425 usable s.f.
Thanks to a very hot, wildly distorted rental market, I could rent my apartment out for about two grand a month.
What would I do today? Lots of folks I know are buying small places uptown, in Harlem, Washington Heights and Inwood. The bottom line is that every neighborhood in the boroughs of Manhattan, Brooklyn and Queens is gentrifying.
There are still some less-expensive areas in Jersey, and in Nassau and Westchester counties. However, they’re generally attached to school districts that are very dodgy.
In short, the answer is: less space, roommates, commuting, or an MBA. In the meantime, it’s very difficult for the city to hire cops and schoolteachers. I suspect that eventually they’ll have to buy apartment buildings and reserve them for public servants. I’m willing to bet that’ll be a more efficient use of tax dollars than paying skyrocketing salaries.
