No, just really fucking preachy.
Come to a conclusion you guys. Sheesh.
I don’t want the world’s bars and restaurants to be my exclusive domain. I have never ever sais such a thing.
:rolleyes:
You know, I don’t want to be inconvenienced by walking over to the toilet to take a piss, I’ll just do it here by the bar? What? You don’t want to stand in a puddle of urine while drinking your beer? What a selfish prick you are! You seem to think all bars and restaurants are your exclusive domain. Pretty soon the only places I’ll be able to piss are restrooms & my home.
Then don’t you mean osmosis? Are you suggesting that walls breathe?
Or do you mean the tiny cracks around windows and under doors? How much smoke do you imagine gets through those?
So do you agree that it’s OK for some bars to allow smoking?
In fairness, I think everyone is a little preachy when it comes to this topic. Hell, when it comes to smoking, we’ve always got somethin’ to argue about! 
I have to say it’s pretty funny how worked up people get when we talk about this issue (myself included). Yookeroo Draconian, eh? To quote American Dad: “Uh oh! Here comes the police to take you to exaggeration-traz!” 
You’re honestly going to tell me you think it is cruel to ask you not to smoke in a restaurant? See to me, cruel would be subjecting you to something that makes you physically ill all the damn time; something that is a guilty pleasure for you, but not a necessity. I get it, I don’t have to go to restaurants, bars, clubs- hell, I don’t have to leave my house, if I’m inclined. But is it that big of a deal to expect you to go through a meal without lighting up?
We’re off topic (which, ya know…NEVER happens on the Dope :D). I agree it seems silly to ban people from smoking in their homes. People do plenty of dumb, harmful things in the privacy of their own homes- and more power to 'em! The thing here is, the owner of the building (whoever it is- the State, the Feds, Jim Bob the slum lord) has a right to say whether or not they want smoke in their building.
We tell our tenants whether or not they can have pets, loud parties, etc. It’s part of the lease they sign. I would think the people moving into the public housing agree to these terms ahead of time, right?
Candles are a fire hazard, and some people do find incense offensive. And smoke of any kind, even simply wood smoke, contains some hazardous chemicals. Pretty much anything you do involves some degree of risk, and some control freaks will jump on that tiny risk and use it as a thin excuse to order other people around.
No, I think the first thing to do is ask yourself whether or not your neighbor’s complaint is reasonable or if he’s just being an asshole. I’ve had neighbors who complained about everything I did, and I very quickly got tired of trying to comply with their demands. Hell, I had one downstairs neighbor in a rooming house who would complain very angrily when I simply walked across my floor or if I happened to drop a shoe while undressing for bed. He complained because I “slammed” my car door shut. He complained because my bedsprings squeaked when I rolled over in bed. He complained about the noise from my TV–when I wasn’t playing my TV. In another rooming house where I stayed, a woman visiting another tenant knocked on my door and asked me to put out a stick of incense I was burning because she had “allergies.” I took about a half a second to think it over before I said no. I was in my own home with my door closed, it was one stick of incense and not some huge cloud of smoke, and I was well within my rights.
If she had a problem with it, she could leave. You see, some people–and you’re one, apparently–go well out of their way to find excuses to be bothered or offended. They aren’t really concerned about the public good, they aren’t really protecting their own rights. They’ve simply discovered a cause or issue which, at least in their own minds, gives them moral camouflage for harassing, bullying or controlling other people, and they like the feeling of power this gives them. A lot of anti-smoking creeps are like this. (A lot of animal rights creeps are the same way.)
Certainly the owner should. But the state shouldn’t have a God damned thing to say about it.
Ha, should have previewed! Should read:
Okay, here’s your conclusion. When you tell me I can’t smoke in my own home, you’re a meddling creep.
Don’t forget, the next thing would be that the Anti’s then start moaning about how they can’t use the patio anymore because it has been fouled and contaminated.
False is the idea of utility that sacrifices a thousand real advantages for one imaginary or trifling inconvenience; that would take fire from men because it burns, and water because one may drown in it; that has no remedy for evils except destruction. - Cesare Beccaria
Loud indignation against vice often stands for virtue in the eyes of bigots. ~J. Petit-Senn
I forgot to mention: it is a good point that I am from a temperate place. The idea works here, but you are right- something else would need to be implemented else where.
SteveG1 please. Don’t forget, the next thing would be that the Pro’s will start moaning about how they can’t smoke at schools and day care centers! (Come on, we can all come up with slippery slope examples, that doesn’t make our points any stronger).
But no one is proposing that more places allow smoking, only fewer. The slope only has one downhill side.
Too late. We had smokers restricted to smoking in designated areas. Then we had them restricted to outside only. Then it was outside designated areas only. Now we have someone saying it should not be allowed in their own homes either. I call bullshit on the whole damn thing. The slippery slope is right there in this thread and I see no end to it. Again, I call bullshit on it.
If a proprietor wants to open a “Standing in Piss” bar, he can go ahead as far as I’m concerned. I’m perfectly capable of choosing not to go to his establishment, and of seeking out establishments that do not permit such behaviour (which will be most of them, since most people don’t like standing in piss). You, being a complete cretin, are apparently not. I’m very sorry for you; I would (literally) hate to be in your shoes.
Diosa, I can see why this seems like a slippery slope argument to you, but the logic used to justify state prohibition of tobacco use in the privacy of one’s own home seems awfully tortured to me. The simple fact is that there are anti-smoking fanatics who don’t want to leave a single cubic inch of space anywhere, public or private, where one may smoke, and so far as they’re concerned there is no reasoning too twisted or bizarre to justify that desire.
It was exactly this sort of sanctimonious, hysterical reasoning that got marijuana outlawed.
A loo-o-o-ong time ago, I read an article (High Times, I think it was) about a gay bar in New York which in fact did have a “standing in piss” section. It seems that some patrons got a sexual charge from being urinated on, and the management accommodated them by providing a kind of pit where they could sit and sip their drinks while other patrons urinated on them.
And now back to our regularly scheduled program …
Huh. Good thing I haven’t done that.
Well, then, you need to learn to express yourself a lot more clearly. It sures does seem like you have.
Don’t get me wrong, I wish smoking were banned everywhere, BUT I respect your right to puff away. I just expect some courtesy and respect from you, as I’m sure you do me. Unfortunately, not everyone in this world is as reasonable (and intelligent…and, let’s be honest- beautiful 
) as us.
Let’s take this angle: we can all pretty much agree* that smoke will harm the interior of a rental over time (smells in the carpet, discolors paint and can even cause it to start peeling- wall paper as well). How would you feel about a “smokers deposit”? Much like a pet deposit (however much is comperable…$100? $200? Whatever), the money would be returned if the house is fine, otherwise it would be used to clean. Thoughts?
*Who am I kidding? We probably don’t agree, but this is my experience with our rentals.
If you want it banned everywhere, then you do not respect my right to puff away. A smoker deposit to cover the cleaning and painting is FAIR, so long as it is a reasonable amount (you can’t demand a 200K or 500K deposit). It should only cover the cost of paint and cleaning. ONLY.
Now back to the slippery slope… It is already happening worldwide. In the past, it already happened right here in the U.S.
*December 17, 2004 the Kingdom of Bhutan a national ban on the sale of tobacco products went into effect. Smoking in all public places in Bhutan became illegal on February 22, 2005.
Selected wards in Tokyo, Japan prohibit smoking on the streets. This ban is enforced and violators are fined.
Recently there has been a growing desire by some anti-smoking activists and health officials to prohibit the sale and consumption of all tobacco products, regardless of where they are used. US Surgeon General Richard Carmona stirred some controversy in June 2003 when he publicly called for all tobacco products to be banned nationwide. A similar view is held by the British medical journal The Lancet, which called for a similar total ban in the UK in the December 2003 issue. In November 2004, Bhutan became the first country on earth to ban tobacco sale completely.
Such a comprehensive ban in these countries would likely face considerable problems. The experience of the US prohibition of alcohol in the early 1900s shows that banning a harmful but popular product leads to widespread drug trafficking, which generates crime. Possibly more relevant is the fact that several US states have banned cigarettes in the past, yet all such bans were abandoned just as was Prohibition. Iowa banned cigarette manufacture and sales in 1897; Tennessee, Wisconsin, Indiana and Michigan were other states that banned cigarette sales at various times between 1897 and 1907.*