Nope I simply just wanted a term you would accept for the meaning I wanted to convey and you kept trying to deny that to maintain your bigiotry. I even offered to be given a word that would be accepted but that was ignored because without the word games the argument would fall.
White Outgroup Intolerance and Declining Support for American Democracy
There is a lot more as stake thank your fragile little ego.
So you are helping by setting that straw man on fire, sure that helps.
As pointed before already, I do expect to see Jeong as being subject to lines in her contract with the NYT that specify that the management will drop her if she returns to the same types of tweeting that she already regretted making.
BTW I still do not see guys like Andrew Sullivan regretting their defence of racists like Murray.
So, there were bigoted Democrats, that doesn’t excuse the behavior or justify an authoritarian response.
Politicians are not messiahs.
Who is thinking that Jeong’s “style” of communicating is effective?
I don’t, the NYT doesn’t, she even doesn’t. She was trolled into making those remarks, and has apologized and agreed that they were unwise. Were it not for right wing trolls continuing to bring it up over and over, then no one would even know of these remarks.
Is there anything ever wrong with the way that the alt-right communicates its message? They attack a person, the person attacks back, then they use the response to their attack as propaganda to try to get people like yourself on their side.
Do you have any criticism at all for those tactics, or do you praise them, because they were effective on you?
Sure. That’s a thing that totally happens.
I know tons of progressives, many of whom would probably qualify as “woke”, and none of them have ever spit in my face, rhetorically or otherwise. I’ve felt very welcome among them.
It takes a lot of fantasizing to get to this ridiculous assertion. Fantasize away, if you like. This op-ed certainly doesn’t support your assertion. Actually, TNC has implied or asserted many times that white Americans today are only a handful of decades away, both rhetorically and factually, from the white Americans of the early and mid 20th century, which should be more than enough to trouble the well-meaning and decent among us. And you’re certainly doing your part in continuing a small but still significant part of that very strong American tradition of white supremacism.
Well, there is the story of former Professor Bret Weinstein of Evergreen College, a white liberal Bernie Sanders supporter who was harassed out of his job by the Identity Left Authoritarians on campus because he disagreed with them. The mini documentary includes a video where he attempts to reason with the protestors, but gets shouted down. Posting on the SDMB, I sometimes feel like Bret Weinstein must have felt. It’s a lonely and frustrating endeavor.
Sounds like a good reason to make private collages and vouchers illegal if you have a problem with private schools teaching their beliefs. /sarcasm
There is a lot of hate coming out of Liberty University and BYU, so I assume you agree on shutting them down too right?
Oh no, he got shouted at? How terrible!
Quite true.
Because a lot of white people equate “person” with “white.” It has always been thus. Implicit bias is a real thing.
But reading the rest of this post…
So does this mean that you will retract your accusation that Ms. Jeong is a racist? (I’d love to see you react the “unapologetic” part as well, seeing as how that was shown incorrect back on page 1.)
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That’s disingenious, not all White people bully POC, and I’ve read many of her tweets, alot of them are just frustrations wrapped in racist jokes, not alot of bullying going on there.
Great, you disagree, that’s why we’re debating these issues.
That leader was referencing the previous meeting in regards to the word spoken, but you are highlighting my point, he was fired for using language in reference to a meeting of how hurtful it could be, where as Jeong keeps her job, despite making racist jokes. So because he’s white, he didn’t get let off the hook, he was fired, where Jeong, because she is a POC was allowed to keep her job, that’s why people are angry about this, and I don’t understand why I have to keep repeating this to you to make you understand.
Threatening what? I’m trying to explain to you that you might justify all these imbalances all you want, but don’t be surprised when people get angry about them and call people like you out on it.
I don’t justify Rosanne Barrs behaviour, but my including of her as an example is that she was fired within hours of making a racist joke about Valerie Justice, and was just one of a line of examples I’ve made to highlight the general discourse in the last twelve months.
Nope, I’ve not said they shouldn’t of fired him, I said why isn’t Jeong held to the same standard that other organisations which have had similar PR gaffes in respects to race.
Erm, Friedland was doing a course about hurtful language and said the N-word as an example, he apologised for it, and employees felt he hadn’t been taking it seriously enough weeks after as he didn’t mention the incident again, so was reported to HR, where he said it in the meeting, and then they booted him out. So again, if they want to fire him fine, but it just adds fuel to the fire of where situations like Jeong crops up, and nothing happens.
So if she wrote an apology, but in her heart didn’t really mean it, that would be ok? Need I remind you she got fired within hours of getting the position at NYT, and she wasn’t even given the benefit of the doubt in respects to context like Jeong did. Again, the double standard of which people were highly irritated by.
If you even bothered to read her tweets in question, she used racial jokes to reference debates or articles or conversations with people who happened to be white, and mocked them accordingly. Stop excusing her actions, she has agency like anyone else.
In the italics, no, that’s not what happened, the NYT reviewed her tweets, still gave her the job, and then when there was a public furore, only then did NYT issue a statement standing by her, and only then did Jeong apologise, so again, I ask you, what is it do you not understand about public anger at the double standards imposed at NYT that you fail to grasp.
Sarah Jeong Joins The Times’s Editorial Board | The New York Times Company 1st August
2nd August
So by that analysis the only perceivable justice is to allow POC to make racist jokes and give them the space to do that, because they may not be able to articulate their frustrations in an appropiate manner?
Oh you do, so if you’re so fair minded and willing to give people the benefit of the doubt, why are you so ready to jump to conclusions that I must be the on some mission to put minorities in their place and hate their ‘uppityness’?
Again, if you had bothered to read my posts, my problem primarily isn’t with Jeong, she is just a symbol of the kind of hypocrisy which being promoted by various organisations, who have the best intentions of trying to be fair, howeve when they get caught out, like NYT did, rather than listening to the criticism, they doubled down on their justification of keeping her and alleged that anyone who was against Jeong to be part of the alt-right. Hence my anger, and alot of other peoples anger.
As I’ve mentioned, if you bothered to read the tweets which were offensive in question, and there were lots of them, alot of them were her just making jokes about white people in reference to the everyday banalities of her life, not necessarily bullying.
Tell that to Quinn Norton.
I love the way in which a question is deliberately set up to trap me and call me a liar, and no, she can write as much as she wants, and I’ll happily read it, I’m calling for a little consistency in NYT’s hiring and firing methods, that’s all.
No it’s not
So because Andrew Sullivan brought it to attention, it invalidates all criticism of such behaviour, got it.
Didn’t know BBC News was now alt right, thanks. You’re also implying I have no agency of my own? When do you take off your ideological glasses?
So by that definition Jeong was maligning the majority, but that’s ok right? All things being the same, which is what I was getting at.
No they’re not, which is exactly my point, either both of them should be in a job, or neither of them.
So again…
Quinn Norton got fired for her tweets without being allowed to explain in context the reasoning behind it, Jeong got hired by the NYT and then apologised after the fact and justified it in part due to attacks from trolls on twitter, even though if you did your research, alot of her tweets were just her sounding off in regards to either some study or dialogue she was having within her social circle.
Threatening is counterproductive, as well as you being assumptive.
She did apologize. I doubt her sincerity, but at least she payed lip service to the social norm against hate speech. Given that her anti-white twitter rampage went on for 2 years, I think it shows us something about her character and disposition. It leads me to believe she has a general sense of animosity towards whites.
If America is such a hopelessly white supremacist country, I wonder why she stays here instead of moving back to her native South Korea. Probably because she couldn’t play the victim over there.
In group preference and outgroup hostility does seem to be part of human nature. This is a human universal. Whites are not uniquely evil in this regard. Go to the Dominican Republic and ask folks there what they think about Haitians streaming into their country and outnumbering the Dominican demographic. “Imagine” by John Lennon is a beautiful song, but humans don’t seem to be built for it.
This is astoundingly shitty in every particular.
But at least “love it or leave it” and “go back to where you came from” closed out my bingo card.
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I’m jumping in late, but you know the old saying… anyhow my worthless opinion is that she should have been let go. If she’s trying to be a comedienne she’s not funny and if she’s pretending to be a late night host she’s got a crappy script. The slog she was putting out shouldn’t be said or written, it’s vile.
This has nothing to do with what I said. I was making the point that there really isn’t that much lefty identity politics happening. But there’s a shit-ton of wingnuts going on and on about lefty identity politics, for the purpose of magnifying white reaction to it.
There may also be lefties making honest critiques of lefty identity politics, but so what? That’s so far down in the white noise that hardly anybody notices.
WTF does this have to do with what I said?
Well sure, he welcomes the support of Hispanics who are OK with his implication that most undocumented immigrants are MS-13 and who aren’t particularly troubled by his breaking up families at the border.
And same for blacks, Muslims, etc. who support him despite similar shit on different days.
Tell me about these spitting-in-people’s-faces incidents. Got a cite?
Did you miss the blatant white nationalism being pushed by Fox News?
Laura Ingraham has quit doing the dog whistles and is directly advocating for white nationalism.
The difference is that white americans are fighting to maintain American apartheid remnant policies.
Remember we had official apartheid in this country until 1971, active attempts at genocidal forced sterilization, where we actually used forced sterilization on more than 1/4 of native Americans in the early 1970’s and we still enforce unequal application of the law and some ‘white’ Americans still don’t don’t give a shit about that.
The fact that your feelings are hurt while you are actively supporting unequal rights for other human beings trumps your fragile ego.
Why should we care about your inability to take criticism while evil is being propagated against our fellow human beings so that you can maintain some bullshit idea that being ‘white’ is anything outside of a concept of the mind that helps justify these evil actions against our fellow Americans.