Newpapers SUCK!

The BBQ Pit
21

Bill, what part of ALL[/b} criminal court convictions are you having a trouble understanding? DWI is, without question, a criminal conviction, and is therefore part of the public record. It should be reported just like the other convictions. Do you think that someone who commits breaking and entering is any more guilty than someone who climbs behind the wheel drunk?

**

No, Bill, I can honestly say that I’ve never found the possibility of the newspaper printing my conviction for DWI to be a deterrent. Silly me, I always found the possibility of killing innocent people because I was drunk to be more than sufficient. If, however, that’s not enough for you or your friend, feel free to reach out for more reasons to bulkward your moral decision.

And, by the way, Bill, it’s not some crap the newspaper is writing. It’s the public record conviction of your friend of a crime. A pretty heinous one in my personal opinion.

**

So what? It has no bearing on whether or not the newspaper should publish the public record of criminal convictions.

No, Bill, actually not almost everyone has gone driving when they were impaired. I never have. No one in my family ever has. None of my friends ever has. And yes, I do drink, sometimes to excess. But I do not drive if I have been drinking. So it’s not really a case of her simply being ‘unlucky enough to get caught’. It’s a case of her willfully breaking the law, putting innocent lives at risk.
Gee, can you tell I have absolutely no sympathy for her plight?

22

Sorry, Bill. I empathize with her, I truly do.

But the fact remains that she could have killed herself, and she could have killed someone else.

It’s not gossip to print criminal convictions in newspapers. And if it serves as a modern equivalent of public stocks, all the better.

Empathy for your friend I have in abundance. I understand the pain she’s feeling.

Sympathy I have not a bit.

23

My God - someone is complaining that a newspaper is telling the TRUTH?!

24

I wouldn’t feel any differently if it was my own mother, Bill. I would empathize and I do, but I would also feel she got what she deserved. People who drive drunk kill people, Bill.

In all honesty? Not to my knowledge. If I’m out, and I have any alcohol, I either limit myself to a drink or two, or stop drinking long before I have to drive home. If I do have too much, I let my wife drive home. If my BAC has ever exceeded legal limits behind the wheel, I’d honestly be shocked.

And as far as

The newspaper didn’t ruin her reputation. She did.

25

[hijack]

Jodi, it’s very good to see you back.

[/hijack]

Sorry, Bill, if she had the bad judgement to drive while drunk, she can’t complain about the punishment. I do, however, hope she recovers, and doesn’t do anything stupid (read “suicidal”) over what could be one of the most valuable lessons she’s ever learned.

26

Hey, Bill, I’m a reporter.

So what would you have us print? The fuzzy bunny news of the day? Never tell of anything that anyone did that could possibly shame them if it was news?

Oh, wait. Since drunk driving isn’t a bad thing, in your view, I guess we might as well never mention it. Or any of those other petty crimes. Get caught in a drug bust? Don’t worry- the only ones who need to know about it are the police and you. Rob a store? Don’t worry about seeing your picture- the paper’s too busy doing in-depth coverage of the local square dance and craft fair.

It’s not supposed to be a fucking deterrent. Reporters don’t go around figuring out who they can shame. It’s a thing known as public record. Court cases are public record. She hit what she headed for, she got what she asked. Defending her drunken driving is fucking absurd. Do I sympathize? A little, but nobody made her drive drunk. She did it of her own will. How can you possibly be so base as to blame a paper? For that matter, what kind of crack are you smoking that makes you defend drunk driving?

27

A. I have ** empathy ** for the “girl”. It’s my job. I also hold her and people who act as she did accountable for their actions. Which means she should get the full boat of consequences, not just the ones you pick out for her.

B. In prior threads, Bill as well as this one, you seem to have 2 standards: 1 for Bill and his friends, and another for others. You don’t have any sympathy for people who do wrong - unless, of course, they happen to be friends with you. And make no mistake, your friend did wrong. And as far as “this is her first offense” BULLSHIT. This is the first time she got caught.

C. I’m only going to say this once. In the last thread about lawyers you kept this kind of tactic up “be honest, wring” . I am honest. Just because I disagree with you does NOT mean that I’m falsly representing myself. I have not ever once, even once, driven while under the influence. By the time I had a car to drive, I was working at the correction center and was VERY careful about anything like that.
Now, I would like ** you ** to be honest. Prior to her arrest for drunk driving, did you make any attempt to convince her that she had a problem or at the very least offer to drive her home so she wouldn’t drive drunk? Didya ever offer her a drink, even suspecting that she had a problem? I had an alcohol free wedding reception to insure that I wasn’t helping any of my friends and relatives to kill themselves or others (had some who had problems).

I suggest you go to the local MADD offices and pick up some literature so that you can become more fully aware of the problems ALL drunk drivers cause ALL of us. I think it’s swell that she’s finally figured out that she had a problem. It shouldn’t have had to take a criminal conviction to convince her.

28

andygirl said:

While true in some cases, this is not true in all.
Seveal years ago (all right, probably a decade ago), the Aurora, Colorado Sentinel printed the photos of people who had been picked up for solicitation. These people had not been convicted, or even tried. It was simply a method of reducing prostitution. And it was thought up by the Aurora City Council, I believe, and consented to by the newspaper. This definitely seemed to me at the time, and still does, as going out of your way to shame someone.

That said, I don’t have any problems with printing names of convicted DUI or DWAI offenders. Public humiliation is in some circumstances more effective in punishing criminals than the justice system.

29

Ogre, Mouthbreather – Thanks! :slight_smile:

No, Byll, I never have. Not once. How about that, huh? Do I drink? Yes; sometimes to excess, and I have on more than one occasion left my car at some divey bar only to have to do the Walk of Shame the next day back to pick it up. And I have on occasion ridden with people who I could not swear were completely sober, which of course is a horse of a different stupidity. But I have NEVER driven drunk, because doing so is the best way I know of to turn yourself into a weapon for the destruction of others. (The fact that I would instantly lose my job also acts as a profound, if secondary, deterrent.) Annoying, ain’t it? But there it is.

As other people have already stated, there is a huge difference between having sympathy for people who are suffering the unpleasant consequences of stupid behavior and concluding that stupid behavior should not have consequences. I am simply not persuaded that a criminal’s name should be omitted from the paper because the criminal feels bad. I bet a lot of them feel bad. Cry me a river.

30

HOLD ON PEOPLE!!!

I don’t support drunk driving. It is wrong wrong wrong. OK? And I am not saying that she shouldn’t have been punished for her crime. It was a crime I know it was. A potentially horrible crime that luckily didn’t get worst. I feel for all of you that have lost someone because a moron drunk driver. My sister has lost half of hand that scaped along the street as her car was rolling over because of a drunk driver.

She(my friend) as all ya’ll said got what she deserved(except for the paper). All I was saying is that it seems kind of sorry for the newspaper to report that. That is all I am saying. I mean no wonder so many people commit crimes over and over people don’t seem to ever forgive anyone.

Wring,

I didn’t pick out any of her punishments the court did that. And I resent you saying that I don’t have sympathy for people other than my friends that have trouble. You don’t know me or what I feel either.

Also I am glad you have never drove drunk. That is very commendable but as you said your job showed the horrors of doing such. Obviously, my friend didn’t have the benefit of the knowledge that you posess otherwise maybe she wouldn’t have done it.

And honestly I was never in the situation to stop her from driving drunk. If I was, you had better believe I would have done it. I have given many of my friends and even stangers(imagine that huh wring) rides home. I myself will admit I have done it when I was younger. I was wrong but back then they didn’t make as big of a deal out of it as they do now and I wouldn’t.

And Pldennison,

I pratice the some of the same things you do. I do not drive drunk either.

And andygirl,

To tell you the truth it would be nice for ya’ll to print more fuzzy bunny news. But heck that would sell as many now would it. Face it ya’ll love dirty laundry and you love printing it(heck there has even been a song about ya’lls wonderful industry. BTW there is tons of crap in the court system why don’t you print all of it after all it is “public record” isn’t it? :rolleyes:

And I too want to know what kink of crack you are smoking to think I defend drunk driving. You should be careful or have you’re paper increase its libel insurance for ya. Luckily, you don’t have to worry about me if you have read my legal threads.

31

Andygirl, come stand over here. We’re having a big party of “People In Professions Bill Doesn’t Like,” and it looks like we can add journalism to the list!

So, what’ll you have? The chicken nachos are amazing and the beer is cold. Just don’t drive drunk.

32

I meant to say it wouldn’t sell as many newspapers.

Btw,

Jodi,

I also commend you for never driving drunk and I too welcome you back and apologize for any thing I might have said that offended you.

33

what you ** are ** trying to defend ** Bill**, is that your personal friend, the drunk driver, should somehow have different and less punishment than other people in your town who commit crimes.

Your only defense for “why” is that “she feels real bad” about it. and we’ve in unison said “so what? so do other criminals.” and you point out that "I mean first she had to spend a night in jail then pay big money for a lawyer to help her with the case. Then had to pay over $3,000 in fines and have 6 months probation with rehab degrading piss test and all. I think she has suffered enough for her crime. "

Guess what ** Bill **- all the other drunk drivers around you had to do exactly the same thing. Why should she be treated any differently?
Frankly, I think one night in jail, $3,000 in fines (is that all fines or did that count her attorney’s costs, too?) along with 6 months probation and rehab (along with the “degrading piss test” :rolleyes: ) was pretty light, given the crime.

And about that crap about me having the advantage of knowing the disastrous results of drunk driving: where the fuck has your friend been in the past 15 years? My exposure to the CJ system occured in 1977. There has been an enormous amount of publicity national and local about the problems of drunken driving in the past 15 years. Was your friend not listening? I don’t buy for one bloody second that she had no knowledge or understanding.

Your defense of her is wrong. It’s called enabling behavior ** Bill ** go read up on it. One of the worst things you can do for a drunk is give them pity about the mess they’ve gotten themselves into. Be a friend to her now. Find out how (and continuing to pat her on the back and say “poor baby they’re treating you so badly” is NOT the way to help her continue to be sober. sheesh. (20 + years of working with substance abusers… including professional, personal and scholastic experiences in the field).
** Jodi ** can I be an honorary member? After all, he kept believing I’m a lawyer, plus, I’m in the profession that is “torturing” his friend by making her take degrading piss tests and all… Please??? I’ll bring home made salsa!

34

*Originally posted by Jodi *

Jodi I have got to go. But I had to say you got me to laugh on that one matter of fact LOL. Too funny. Have a good weekend.

35

Are you suggesting that the reason criminals are repeat offenders is because nobody forgives them? I can see it now- Well, officer, the reason that I mugged this woman is because the last time I did it, no one told me it was all right, handed me a lollipop, and forgave me. :rolleyes:

So your friend, not having the knowledge of wring, was completely unaware of the dangers of drunk driving? To suggest that people aren’t aware of the consequences of drunk driving is inane. I doubt that there is anyone who would say that there are no consequences to DUI.

Bill, I’d like to point out that I work for two newspapers. Just two. I should also mention that I pride myself on being an ethical journalist who has contributed only to ethical papers, thank you. I am not going to defend the hacks and sensationalizers in the industry, but by and large, journalists are not evil people and papers do not go out of their way to condemn people. Face it, dirty laundry speaks for itself.

I haven’t read the article in question, and I don’t know the standard op of the paper you mention. However, when reporting court cases, local newspapers usually report court cases that are pertinant to the immediate area, involve members of the local community, or have special interest.

Color me impressed. :rolleyes:

WB, I interpreted your statements defending your friend to be defending drunk driving by extension. That is why I said what I did. I realize that you’re not defending it, but your statements can be interpreted as doing so. Saying “doesn’t everyone do it”, for example, would certainly seem to be making excuses for DUI, if not defending it.

I also doubt that you have a concept of libel. I could quote extensively from my AP handbook, but you can just as easily find the information yourself. However, fuck you for questioning my integrity and professionalism as a journalist because of my comments here. Does the pit look like a newspaper? Your insult is taken utterly without context. You might as well insult my ability to sing, having never heard me do so.

Jodi- I’ll take you up on the nachos, but I’d rather have a Diet Coke. I don’t drink at all. Party!

36

Wring, I believe that you’re already on the list of “People Attempting To Explain Things To Bill” a/k/a “The Intellectual Masochists,” so of course you’re in! I hope that’s no wimpy-ass salsa, though. Andygirl, one frosty Diet Coke coming up.

37

thanks ** Jodi ** (by the way the “byll” was priceless!}

naturally my salsa is NOT wimpy (I also make a suburb horseradish mustard - but it’s better with things like roast beef than nachos)

yessssirreeeee, sho is nice hangin out with the likes of you!

38

Well, at the risk of being shot down by Alphagene for subversive Christian comments in the Pit, let me point out that there is a large difference between paying the penalty for having committed a crime and facing the inevitable publicity for the same, which everyone has dealt with at length, and having to bear opprobrium thereafter for having not been perfect in the public sight – and that the latter is, in many communities, an element in recidivism. And so, yes, after paying for his/her crime, the person in question should be forgiven. Not necessarily the entire situation be forgotten. But it should never be held against him/her as he/she tries to rebuild his/her life. Otherwise it’s a life sentence, on the installment plan.

And, without jumping to Bill’s friend’s defense, it does seem to me that a conviction for an incident a year previous rates a short paragraph buried in an article in the middle of the paper if it deserves coverage at all. Unless they’re trying to crack down on drunk driving. It’s no longer “news” – it’s the final disposition of something that’s lingered on. Andygirl, I’d welcome your thoughts on that as a journalist – the crime is the news, in most cases; the conviction, unless it was a big deal – heinous or otherwise especially newsworthy – is not.

39

You’re fucking kidding me! Your friend is clueless about the horrific possible consequences of drunk driving? It doesn’t take working at a corrections center or a morgue or anyplace else to know what a horrible combination that alcohol and a few tons of steel make…

And to suggest that people commit crimes over and over again because “people don’t forgive them” is full of shit.

40

Just out of idle curiosity, does your brain actually review anything you type before your fingers start flying over the keyboard or is this sort of stream of conciousness thing where there’s no editorial control? Do you really believe that seeing their name in a police round up report is the reason for recivisim? "I can’t go straight because someone might have seen my name printed in a column buried on the 48th page of a weekly newspaper.

She did her time, she’s ‘forgiven’. But this idiotic assumption that her crime is somehow less serious than any of the other crimes listen in the police roundup for the week is moronic. Your continued arguments about this subject make you appear to diminish the seriousness of her offense. You seem to be treating this like a speeding ticket. “Why should anyone else know I was speeding?” Guess what, it’s not speeding. Personally, I think a $3,000 fine and six months probation is an almost offensively light sentence. Personally, I’d be in favor of seeing her prosecuted for attempted murder. Getting behind the wheel of the car when you’re intoxicated is depraved indifference to human life, and criminally negligent at the very least, even if no one died.

Right, Bill. She didn’t know how bad driving under the influence could be because she’s never worked in the criminal justice system. Gee, I guess those hundreds news stories on dead children killed by drunk drivers must have never really sunk in. You know what, Bill? I’ve never worked in the criminal justice system, but somehow I knew that it was a seriously bad thing.

She doesn’t deserve the full measure of punishment because she didn’t really know how bad it could turn out? How in the hell can you justify this sort of idiocy? “Gee officer, I didn’t realize that when I shot my big ole gun up into the air, the bullets were going to come down and hit someone.” That’s the equivalent of what she did, Bill. She got into her car and turned it into a loaded weapon. As soon as she got out on the road she started taking pot shots at people. It’s only through blind luck that she didn’t end up killing anyone.

You seem to think that because no one died, it’s not really that big a deal and she should be able to simply put it behind her and forget that it ever happened. Guess what, it is a big deal. She should get on with her life and but she should never forget what she did and how close she came to killing someone.