I bet you’ve got a macro for that by now. It must save a lot of keystrokes.
I don’t know of any recent Presidents who didn’t meet with some religious leader or another while in office (I think Billy Graham met with most of them). The issue is the extent to which that religious belief manifests itself in public policy. There is a slight but extremely important difference between “God gives me the strength to make difficult decisions” and “God tells me what to do.” One is a statement of faith, the other a potential symptom of schizophrenia.
Even assuming Obama is lying (which, as I’ve said above, I don’t), “everything’s fine” is not an accurate interpretation of what Princhester said. “The situation is more tolerable” is probably closer.
And at least if President X (let’s make this generic) is a secret atheist pretending to be a Christian we don’t have to worry about him invading Cuba because he thinks it’s what God wants, whereas President Y, who has an open and strong fundamentalist streak, could conceivably act against good policy if he thought it was the will of the Lord.
I’ve not seen anything to suggest Obama is making policy decisions based on faith alone, with the possible exception of his heeldragging on many of the gay-specific issues from his platform. If you’ve spotted something, do tell.
Bush is a “horror” because he was doing more than “going thru the motions”. Obama is not a horror, because the atheists accept (albeit grudgingly) that he is only doing what he has to to get elected.
Obama’s heel-dragging is faith-based but acceptable. Bush’s heel-dragging was faith-based and unacceptable.
Starving Artist hit it exactly. IOKIADDI. As I suspect you realize on some level.
Yes. Lying about meaningless ceremonies to mollify the pearl-clutching right is . . . well, understandable if not okay (I wouldn’t lie to mollify the right,). Basing policy on what one thinks a non-existent invisible superfriend wants is not. It’s the difference between saying “Thank god the weather’s nice today” and arguing that if poor people die from lack of health care insurance it must be God’s will and health care reform will interfere with that, and expecting to be taken seriously.
There may be the odd person here who slammed Bush for just being religious but they’d be in the minority as every US politican I can think of bangs on about religion A LOT compared to any other western country I’m familiar with.
The problem with Bush was that he said he went to war on a mission from god after talking to him. That’s what led to the main clusterfuck about him and religion.
When Obama says anything like that then he’s in the same ballpark as Bush and will deserve the shitstorm that comes his way.
Anyway, this thread is about the mouthbreathing morons who think that Obama is a muslim. It’s not about if Obama is getting an easier time from Dems than they gave Bush as this should be just taken as read. Reps gave Bush passes on things that they would and have vilified Obama for and visa versa, that’s the norm. Almost everyone is hypocritical to some degree in this regard, you, me and the vast majority of everyone else.
Sadly, my own mother just told me that she believes Obama to be a Muslim, and that she knows this because he said so.
I gather that she got this from some amazingly out-of-context clip shown on Fox News. My mother is an extremely intelligent woman, who reads very heavily and went to school evenings for years to get herself a bachelor’s degree. She even voted for Obama. But she’s gotten herself addicted to Fox News, and in recent years has been saying the most amazing things that I would have called out of character if she’d said them a couple of years ago.
I do understand that people tend more conservative as they age, but this came on awfully suddenly.
But then we’d be just like those Godless Canadians
But yeah, we still have some stupid fucking morons “down here”. Watch, next it will be “some sinister gubmnt spiracy involving the White House press corpse to keep us good Murricans bamboozled”.
I suspect that Obama’s ‘prayer’ goes something like this – “God damn it, I wish the religious nuts would leave me alone so I could do my job and not deal with this bullshit”.
Hell, if it transpires that Obama has genuinely been subverting his own political agenda for religious reasons, it will definitely NOT be okay with me. Right now it’s only vague supposition about things which could be explained by non-religious reasons - for example, he could be holding back on the gay issues because he doesn’t want it to mobilize the Right in the mid-term elections (or <urk> he’s saving it for his second term for the same reason). I got no proof at all that God is whispering in his ear.
But yes, I am a hypocrite. I protested when Bush destroyed Iraq on a mission from God but stood idly by while the Blues Brothers did the same to downtown Chicago. Nuns and orphans notwithstanding, it was wrong and I apologize.
I’ve been having some neurological problems of late, and so I think I’ll avoid anything that may cause stroke, seizure, or just plain stupidhoodliness.
Look, it’s not like the Kenyan thing. There’s no birth certificate you can produce to say “See? I’m a certified Christian!” Hell, a lot of people don’t even know themselves what their religion is.
You’ll have to lump me in with the group that’s “not sure” what his religion is. I’m pretty sure he’s nonreligious. That’s why, on the campaign, he just picked the first church that crossed his mind and said “Oh yeah, I’ve been going there EVERY WEEK! Aren’t I a good religous boy?” But then Wright turned out to be crazy so he’s like “:o OK, so maybe I didn’t go there…like, ever.”
Now, he doesn’t go to church at all. When someone asks, he goes “Oh, I have a ‘spiritual advisor’.” when that spirit is actually Jim Beam and the advice is “see if Michelle’s awake.” And then when he’s pressed on the issue, he doubles down. “Advisor? Heck, I have 6…no, 7! 7 adviso- er- pastors. That’s what they call them, right, Rahm? Yeah, 7 pastors.”
Now, I think that even atheists have some sort of “background” religion from their culture. The guy lived most of his life in the US but he was a young child (that’s when they getcha, see?) in Indonesia. So I really have to wonder what the President would consider his “background religion”. Probably Christian. If I had to bet on it, that’s what I’d say. But if he finally threw up his hands and went, “you know, I don’t really believe all that shit, but I’m more Muslim than Christian”…well, let’s just say it wouldn’t surprise me.
Now back to your regularly scheduled “He’s gotta be a Christian 'cause he SAYS SO! :(:(”
The complaint was never that W bellieve in God (Clinton was actually pretty religious himself) but that he claimed that Jesus was literally telling him what to do. If Obama starts saying that Jesus is talking back to him, we’ll get concerned. This might come as a shock to you, but most Democrats are Christians. Most American liberals believe in God. Christians are not a persecuted minority, and with the possible exception of the odd fringe individual here and there, George W. Bush was never mocked by the left (or on this board) simply for being a believer or for praying. Never. Didn’t happen. The criticism for the religious right is when their beliefs spill over into bigotry, theocracy and political manipulation.
