There might have been a justification for Afghanistan in that we seemed to have solid evidence that the WTC attackers’ supporters used it as a base. No such thing in Iraq.
And why shouldn’t we expect GW to leave a mess for others to clean up. From what I have read, that was his pattern in the oil business.
First of, I´m not from USA, but I´m form one of those dark countries you referr to as “allies”.
Do you realize that when USA fully entered WWII Germany already had ossuped sovering nations (Poland for starters)? Did Iraq such a thing recently? No, so I can´t undertand why some people compare both events. Iraq wasn´t a menace, that´s for sure.
I don´t know if I can answer your question, but I would like to point one thing:
Since USA is the most powerful country in the world, and its foreign policy leads the… (now what are the words?) “international society”, we are all interested in who´s your president and what will he do, I bet almost as much as you do.
Not that Bush is very populer hereabouts, by the way.
Another president would have to perform a less agressive foreign policy (military speaking) to catch our likings. I dunno if Bush will be re-elected, but there are many signs that USA is preparing for more wars. And I don´t think another president (even a democrat one) would stop that.
And another thing. I undertand that one thing is USA government and the other thing is USA´s people. Understand you that one thing is our governments (here in your “allied” countries) and another thing are we, the people. My government supported your war on Iraq, 93% of our population didn´t (count me in).
While I think your OP is a bit extreme (to say the least), I also think your questions are reasonable.
I think an enormous amount of diplomacy will be required. Specifically, the “legitimacy” of the UN will have to be restored; goodwill will have to be extended to those countries who opposed the war; the rhetoric of hate will have to be extinguished; and in general the US will have to lose its arrogant, overbearing stance in world affairs.
How exactly that is to be accomplished is frankly unknown at this point. We’ve dug a pretty deep hole here.
I think the world will become an even more dangerous place.
Bugger! You got me there with that devious little word Aldebaran. Bugger! Bugger! :mad: By “about the entire world” do you mean you and your wife and you dog? Because I have never met a single person who would subscribe to even one of your 7 bullets.
whoo how! Hold yer horses there buddy. I just learned from another thread about Bali that it’s not considered good sport to steer an OP onto a more reasonable path. Cease and desist immediately!
Anyway I can hardly believe anybody are seriously debating such a lame OP (about the lamest I have seen on my stay at SDBD)
Lemme see … a quick cut and paste will come up with this little OP – how do you like that A.?
Rune,
If you put that in a topic of your own as OP, maybe I’ll reply.
If however the sole intention of your post above is to disturb this topic, then I’m sorry, but I shall report it to the moderators.
How do you like that, R.
Salaam. A
Shiver me beams - The Moderators! :eek: Well my contention is that there is no topic. However if you persist I think it’s fair you come up with some documentation:
Cite please for “about the entire world” and “never trusted for one single second” Both very inflammatory and downright insulting accusations, and to my best knowledge false. Such cannot stand on their own legs, you’ll have to provide cites here my friend.
I was going to ask cites and documentation for the rest of your claims, but actually I don’t think the OP merits more work from my part, so I think I’ll stop here. Give me convincing documentation for just this one claim and we’ll see about taking your OP serious.
All I can say is that nothing will be surer to get Bush re-relected than the contempt of people like Aldebaran. You are the epitome of everything Americans dislike about the Old World in one package.
Whoops–my apologies, that came very close to an insult in the wrong forum.
Let me just say that foreign opponents of our government might want to be a little more reserved in their…advice…to Americans about the upcoming election. Bush was elected by a tiny margin in a very, very different world, and many of those votes I know for a fact came from a deep contempt for Clinton, not love of Dubya. Please, please keep that in mind.
“You might think that. I couldn’t possibly comment.” - Francis Urquhart, House of Cards
WS,
Oh well, you must have missed in beautiful Copenhagen the publication of the result of world wide polls.
They were a bit surprizing. The current president of the USA was considered a far greater danger to the world peace then for example OBL.
I don’t have these in some miraculous source online. But you can enjoy the article under the following link. Which by the way predates the last surveys; they are even less favourable to the USA.
You probably also missed all those reports on the meetings of the UN predating the criminal invasion of the sovereign nation Iraq and you must also have missed the fact that the “evidence” given there by the USA was one big package of lies, as is shown already.
You must also have missed the fact that luckely enough for them the majority of the UN memebers saw right through these forgeries and lies and that they gave Mr. Blix the credit and respect he deserves.
You have also missed how this diplomat, a man with an international reputation and carreer, was shamelesly attacked and insulted by the USA.
You must of course also have missed the shameless abandonce by the USA of the Kyoto agreements… and some other tiny little details that proof each an sich how trustworthy the USA is.
You also must have missed the “Freedom Fries” and similar hilarious arragant and childish scandals, promoted by the US government. And some other tiny little insults towards nations and their representatives, who don’t kneel at their feet at command.
And you must have missed the scandal among the UN diplomats when the fact that their privacy wasn’t safe for the US ears and eyes and of course you have also missed then the shameless threatening and bribery done by the US in order to get countries to vote in favour for their criminal plans.
You also missed the reason why the last resolution drafted by the US/UK wasn’t even put on the table.
Well, I’m not responsible for what you miss or don’t pay attention to, am I ?
By the way: If you want to be part of the Great USA, which is obvious since you jump to its defence in no time, then why don’t you move overthere ?
Salaam. A
Oh … I almost forgot:
You also must have missed the world wide protests against the USA .
Well, if you live in Copenhagen…
I’m amazed and completely speachless.
Salaam. A
Oh, wow. Never heard the ol’ “If you like _________ so much, move there!” used by a non-American before!
So, A., you’re part Egyptian? A country that’s been run by the same dictator* for THE LAST TWENTY-FOUR YEARS?? A country where the Nobel laureate Nahgib Mahfouz got stabbed in the neck for this views?? And you’re lecturing us?
No, I’m not “part Egyptian”… Why should I?
Salaam. A
I’d have to say Debbie’s right. Any US president is a greater danger to world peace than Osama. I mean, the US has guns! And other things!
Seriously, if Al-Queda attacked all it wanted and nobody responded, it wouldn’t be a great threat to world peace. It’s a threat only because the US responds. Big deal.
World peace isn’t always a good thing. If it was, then “Peace in our Time” would still be a viable slogan. I actually saw a photo of someone holding that sign up in an anti-Afghan war protest, you know. Not sure if he was pulling a leg or seriously ignorant.
Now, the real question is, who’s a greater danger to world stability? I’d say OBL was. Now… God knows, we’re still shaking out from his kicking the sleeping bull in the crotch. Things will settle down.
By the way Mehitabel, do you realize which nation keeps Mubarrak where he is at all costs?
Do you realize that even the Imam of the Al Azhar can’t risk to say something that goes against the interests of the USA?
I should say to you:
Do something !
Thank you.
Salaam. A
You said in another thread you were from the nation that first reached out to make peace with Israel. Which one was that besides Egypt?
And what’s the debate here again? The OP is true even if we elect Carol Mosely-Braun.
Not that I should expect a bored teen posting from a cybercafe posing as a married horse-owning scholar with no university affiliation, no research skills, and the debating skills of the Incredible Hulk to make sense…
Declan
Just a point of order - saying that you just reported a post is generally frowned upon by el Moderatos.
Well since most are nick picking on your OP instead of your questions... let me answer in a more serious note:
This will make mending up hard in two aspects… most countries even thou they will overjoyed with the falling of the oil cartel will be pretty cautious about the new admin no matter who it is… and the new admin will have to deal with hurt “feelings” and deep reluctance to work with the new admin. The new president would have to “apologize” in a diplomatic way not publicly to win back allies.
Many countries now are holding back more open criticism of the US due to the view that Bush is on his final moments. Just wait a year and he wont be president no more. If Bush does reelect himself... these countries might openly oppose the US. A wide range of countries might "unite" in order to frustrate US sumpremacy in existing international bodies like the UN and world bank.Well, I didn’t deal with the OP because it was couched in such insulting terms that it was unclear exactly how it could be answered. Let’s try it with Brazil; how would you like it if somebody wrote, "Given the fact that everyone else on the planet thinks of Brazilians as a bunch of empty-headed, frivolous yet frequently violent idiots who divide their time between samba lessons and perpetual Carnivale parades, and taking into account their ongoing rape of the rain forest, genocide of their Indians, unsolvable racism mentality, and horrific poverty, how should they deal with their current problem of Satanic cult murders?
And then suppose that your protestations that the Indians aren’t all dead, racism and environmental concerns are being dealt with, and everybody in Brazil isn’t poor and there’s social programs in place, etc. were met with a statement that you didn’t know what you were talking about and didn’t you remember this horrible thing Brazil did back in 1873? etc.
After a few months of this, you’d stop dealing with the OP as having actual questions, because his initial premises are too exaggerated to be dealt with.
As for my answers, hmmm. If I took them seriously for a sec I’d say that fences will be mended quite easily and already are being mended, Iraq will lurch slowly back on track, OBL and Saddam will be betrayed and killed, and the rest of the world will accept a Bush re-election as I had to accept it when Sharon was made PM of Israel. Not the result I wanted, but you know what, I don’t get a vote. It’s a democracy and a friendly country. I have the right to complain about the results, in a polite way, but unlike the OP I will listen to the answers.