Your entire OP amounts to nothing more than “I don’t like you. What are you going to do about it?”
The short answer being, of course, “Nothing”. We don’t really care what the hysterics of the world think. We are going to continue to act in what we believe to be our own best interest.
If you expect that we not take action against what we see as a threat to us, because it won’t be popular with the French or the Belgians, you are going to be disappointed.
Please understand something - if you can - foreign popular opinion is not totally ignored, but it is not as important in the US as domestic popular opinion. But the opinion of the reflexively anti-US element is not something that needs to be considered at all. Nothing we do will ever satisfy some people, so there is no need to bother to try.
By which I mean the opinion of people who see Bush as a greater threat to the world than Osama bin Laden. Those kind of people are too stupid to worry about.
The other factor to consider is that everyone knows that it is safe to criticize the US. If you get too mouthy about Muslim extremists, there is a reasonable chance that they will attack you. You have to be Saddam Hussein for twenty-four years before the US attacks.
So what will the next administration do? Bush will be re-elected, so we will simply have another four years of anti-Bush foam-flecked ravings to discount from the one side, and four years of us saying to the various surrender monkeys around the world “This is how the only remaining superpower sees things. We are going to do what we think is right. We hope we have your support. If not, we will both have to live with that.”
Too wordy. “We don’t care, we don’t have to care, we’re the Americans.” Much more succinct and to the point. 'Course, its hard to top Caligula: Oderint dum metuant.
Alde, relax. You’ve said yourself that between your bad English and dyslexia you have a lot of trouble understanding what some of us are saying. Read twice. Think hard. Then post. Not on your feelings, but on your thoughts. There’s a saying here in America: “I don’t have a dog in that fight”. It’s very difficult to debate anything with you because you are being so unnecessarily coy abotu where you’re posting from. We don’t know what dog you have in this fight. You claim to be part-Arab, but which country? You’re now living a luxurious life in northern Europe, but which country? Don’t be so scared, nobody is going to go to Finland or whatever and search for you to argue with you in person. Please stop the games and the evasion and fill out your location line like a man.
Sickboy, very thoughtful post. But you have to understand that I’m nearly forty now and for every single year of my life, no matter what American did or what sort of administration we’ve had, left right and center, there have ALWAYS been people in other parts of the world burning flags, screaming, and protesting at what the country did. After a while, you have to start to, if not tune it out, filter it. So trust that Americans will take foreign attitudes into account, but that we get dumped on so often that we have to be very careful as to which group is making sense and which are just engaging in routine bashing.
Most people are against war in general. Especially one that doesn’t concern them directly. If you asked me if Brazil should go to war with New Zealand, I would probably say ‘no’. It is quite a leap from being against the war to being against everything the US stands for.
ALCA stalled completely. I dont know the acronym for it in engilsh. Free Area Trade of Americas. Popular opinion is totally against it now… and it was still viable before Bush.
Alcantara Space Base - Brazil put thru Congress authorization to allow “rental” of the area to the US for 30 year. 60 Billion dollar deal. It didnt have a good chance of passing… but Bush really buried it with what is seen as aggressive US policies.
Our Airforce will in a year or two buy their new fighter planes and its almost guaranteed the F-16 will not be considered not only due to technical issues but technology transfer limitations by the US govt.
Several incidents of diplomatic pressuring for greater action in the triple-border area, aggressive stance on Brazil being against the Iraqi Invasion… including a demand for an explanation.
The Steel Industry protection setup by Bush is a major problem as are some other tariffs.
Got a cite for this? Again, popular opinion is not the issue. Can you show at least a quote from a legislator that indicates his/her position changed on this issue due to Bush’s foreign policy issues? Specifically in relation to Iraq, as this is the big bugaboo you keep bringing up.
Se Monty’s not above.
Sorry, but this seems independent of Bush’s foreign policy. If you have a cite that shows otherwise, let’s see it.
You lost me on this one. Again, a good cite would probably clear things up.
Bush clearly pandered to the Steel Industry on this. It was pretty shamelss. I wasn’t aware of how this was related to Iraq, though. While there is some basis for this being a problem, I don’t see it to be much different than the penny-ante tactics of previous presidents. I won’t defend it, though, as I don’t think it was the right thing to do.
I didn´t say nobody hated USA. How many people you´ve seen burning USa flags in Spain? I´ve seen none. France? none. Germany? none. UK? none… I´m speaking of your allies. If USA wants to bypass his allies, it´s OK (I´m not stating my personal OP here), but then don´t regret if they turn against you. Being an ally means that both part´s interests must be taken under consideration. They way I see it is “if you want me to support you, you must give me something in exchange, not just shout orders at me”. It is a matter of give and take.
I can´t recall her name right now, but a couple of weeks before the war started, this female US politician (not Condoleeza Rice or whatever her name is spelled) made a tour over Europe to gain support. She wasn´t able to get any because more or less her argument was like “you must obey or else…” What I am saying is if you want us as your allies, a little respect won´t hurt, but help a lot.
Of course your enemies will be your enemies, but I wasn´t talking about them.
OK, but that’s not what the OP was about. The premises in the OP were much stronger than that, and completely wrong-headed.
And I accept that nobody in Spain was burning flags, I was just using that as a common anti-American demonstration trick. I’ve never seen mobs in America burn the flag of another country except a few Japanese ones during the trade wars.
Let’s see now, we are losing lives and spending billions using the claim that we will bring representative government to an area that has had a conspicuous lack of such a thing. And John Mace implies, in the cite below, that popular opinion is secondary to what legislators want?
I hate Bush. I didn’t vote for him. I don’t think he won the election, either. I think he’s a cheat, a liar, a scoundrel and an idiot, and excepting the term “idiot” I think that goes for Karl Rove, Dick Cheney and Donald Rumsfeld too (I might buy “idiot” for Rumsfeld).
That said, mehatibel has a point, sickboy. People are ALWAY protesting America, just about everywhere. On our end of the pond, it makes it EXTREMELY difficult to sort out the protests of regular folks who have been genuinely outraged by some lardbrained act of Prezdent Dumya from the kind of folks who are outraged by just about everything American. The signal to noise ratio is not very good here, especially since our media has the collective attention span and intelligence of a cocker spaniel on speed and will report on anything that makes a loud noise or has a pretty face over anything else.
Taken out of contex, David. My request to Rashak was to give specific examples of actions legislators had taken in his country. He replied with something about popular opinion. Had we been discussing popular opinion, his response would have been apropriate. But we weren’t, and so it wasn’t.
Oh My! Such a pity being american these days. You see, you go to another country, you bomb it and the people dislike it, what´s wrong with those folks? Just because we completely destroyed their industry, crashed their social system and brought chaos to the entire land, they hate us!!!
And os course there is that thing about those folk who always complain about what america do. You see, I´ve never really saw them protesting about our inner policy, but once you harm their countries interests or directly attack them… whoah, that really pisses them off and I don´t know why. Such a susceptible people…
And our allies, what´s the big deal with them? We bark orders at them and they dislike it you see? dislike it! Now what kind of allies are they? They should be grateful for us letting them kissin our ass, well that´s what being allies mean, right?
P.S. Please understand that I don´t pretend to offense anybody here, it´s just how some of your words sound to me. I think I made myself pretty clear in my post, but still I feel that you didn´t understand me or didn´t want to. Friendship works in both directions, you see.
But anyway I´m going to admit here (to put this to an end) that yes, some people will always protest no matter what you do (like my parents with everything I do, heh, heh). But that doesn´t mean that you must bypass every complaint made, some of them have a point, I think.
Like I said already elswhere on this board: my reading skill of the Enlgish language are a thousand times better then when it comes to write the language.
I have no difficulties to read posts on a message board. Sometimes there can be confusion about nuances and certain expressions peole use. Most of the time there is sooner or later some point where cultural differences play a role on both sides.
Yet this doesn’t need to cause any problems.
Why o you consider asking simple questions as starting a “fight”?
Actually, I was raised at home as Muslim and Arab.
I don’t live in Europe. My home is where I was born. That doesn’t quite fit the picture you obviously have in mind. Not every Arab sits in front of a black tent with in the background one goat and a camel. I know that must sound amazing to you.
And I prefer to keep my privacy private. If by some attack of lunaticism I feel the irresistable need to give you my address, you’ll get it.
John Mace I can only give cites in portuguese and not to all of them. The point wasnt only the Iraq Invasion either… Bush policies as a whole. America the Supreme, etc… Its more to do with politics than economics… but then its our legislative that decides on treaties and such. ALCA will never pass our congress… unless the US changes it to be totally unbalanced in our favor.
Politics in Brazil has become more anti american especially as regards national sovereignty. Since the US doesn’t respect sovereignty (at least to our views) then the Space Base is an impossible deal as is the fact of depending on US warplanes if we buy F-16’s. (The US doesnt want to sell them with modern missile technology either.) So we wont buy F-16’s… loss for US industry.
The space base was a project many of the brazilian govt. supported… but since 2000 its been a political impossibility to defend the project. Might not be the best example… but its one more thing. The US would save 15-20% in launch costs overall…
Soon after the Iraqi Invasion the US embassador demanded an official explanation on Brazil’s being against it. That surely ruffled a lot of feathers and left a bitter taste. Lets say goodwill to the US here is running at a minimum if at all.
Monty as for the Tariffs… your saying Congress started and approved those Steel tariffs ? Bush had nothing to do with it ? hhmmphh… He is the president afterall… zero participation is a bit farfetched.
I did forget to mention tourism. With the increased VISA requirments and costs, plus the already mentioned anti americanism… Brazilians arent travelling as much to the US anymore. Exchange students are going to Canada and Europe instead. Tourists are going elsewhere. Might seem a small thing… but those are american jobs going down the drain. Join up all those small countries and the cumulative effect doesnt bode well for the US economy. Also those exchange students are the future elite… a elite that used to be pro-American… and wont be anymore. blah blah blah… but in the long term it matters.
Oh, I give up. We at the SDMB don’t hold any of the stereotypes that you think we do, but nothing we can say can convince you otherwise. Fine. Bye. I’ll stop hounding you about coming out of your shell; you can stay, safe and hidden in your little cocoon of “mystery”.
Rashak, your country would undo over fifty years of being a Good Neighbor because of one President? Why do you let him have so much power over you? Although I agree the visa restrictions are perhaps too strong. Trouble is, when they were looser, the Al Qaeda guys slipped in. But it must be a nuisance for travellers. Unlike many Brazilians, though, I don’t have the money to be vacationing overseas so I wouldn’t know.
Sickboy, didn’t you grow up under a facist government? Americans have forgiven Spaniards for allowing Franco to spend most of the century ruling over them, don’t worry. I think you compare our current government to the terrible situation you endured growing up–but even Bush’s harhest critics wouldn’t concede that. Worst comes to worst, he’ll be out of office by 2008, and rest assured the world will still be spinning.