NFC East 2008

A lovely win yesterday for the Giants. Even with the Cowboys sort of hanging around until that last TD with 8 minutes to go, there wasn’t any real anxiety, as Dallas clearly could do nothing at all on offense; their lone offensive TD came at the end of an overlong drive (time-wise) that included a number of pretty lucky breaks (especially the B.S. personal foul) and a ton of negative plays. Obviously it’s a different game with Romo and, say, Newman back in the lineup, but a 35-14 win that wasn’t even as close as that score would imply suggests to me that the Giants are pretty clearly the superior team even if Dallas is at full strength.

A word on Dallas and Football Outsiders: in Pro Football Prospectus ‘08, FO unveiled a surprisingly pessimistic projection for the Cowboys, saying their numbers suggested about a 50% chance that they would finish with 8 or fewer wins. There were a few factors that played into that projection, but by far the biggest was injuries: Dallas has been exceptionally healthy the past few years, which has been a huge factor in their recent success. While conceding that part of that health is almost certainly due to the skill of Dallas’ trainers, FO did the research and found that unusually healthy (or unhealthy) teams can generally expect to regress to average health going forward, which in turn means that a very healthy team in Year X is likely to under-perform in Year X+1 relative to expectations due to regression to the mean. This is exactly what we’re seeing with this year’s Cowboys. They’re finally suffering from the kinds of injuries they’ve been avoiding all these years, and it’s showing up in the Loss column.

I guess we’ll know a lot more about the Redskins after tonight, won’t we?
For my money, next week’s New York-Philly matchup is the game of the year to this point, bar none. The Eagles are better than than their 5-3 record. Their losses have been close defeats at the hands of good teams, while their victories have mostly been dominating. They have the 3rd best point differential in the NFL (New York, Tennessee), and by a healthy margin. Kevin Curtis is back, adding a #1 (or 1.5) WR to an already potent offense. I doubt they’re as good as the Giants, but Philadelphia scares the hell out of me, especially **in **Philly. The Eagles are 2.5 to 3 point favorites in the game, suggesting most people feel about the same as I do. Yikes.

That said, to this point this is the 2nd best Giants team that I can remember watching (behind the '90 team; I was too young to remember the '86 squad). While I expect a very close game next week, this team is certainly capable of winning by three scores, which is saying something.

I was convinced that Tuck penalty would trigger one of those apology letters. Instead, the league office had the gall to levy a fine against him. Appalling.

On the ESPN crawl Tuck was quoted as saying “You can’t hit the QB in the head, can’t hit him below the knee, and apparently you can’t hit him hard, either.”

Goodell apparently agreed with him, as the fine has been rescinded. Don’t see that every day.

I was furious at the time because you could clearly see that Tuck put his arms out to the side to try and catch himself going to the ground so as to not drive Brooksie through the turf. If he’d kept his arms wrapped around him, driving all of his weight into his chest, then yeah, I could sort of see the call. But as-is that was a terrible call on a 3rd down stop, keeping alive their only TD drive all game.

I’m not sure what those numbers are. Are they league-wide rankings? If so, I don’t see why you’d compare them against the rest of the league instead of against themselves. Doesn’t the league-wide rankings approach introduce countless more variables?

Eli’s career stats
1st Quarter: 79.3
2nd Quarter: 73.1
3rd Quarter: 71.8
4th Quarter: 77.1

These numbers reflect my (personal, not necessarily posted) observations somewhat well. I would have said that the Giants usually start strong in the 1st, fade in the 2nd, struggle in the 3rd, and then come on like gangbusters in the 4th. His 2008 numbers follow this trend to the extreme: 113.5, 82.0, 67.4, 101.1. These difference seem kind of hard to miss to me, but I guess different people watch for different things. Maybe my superstitious side amplifies my perception of these kinds of trends.

(And I’ve developed the worst ever superstition this season; I have to wear my Jets hats during Giants games now. Stupid Browns.)

Looking at Jacobs, he has his best per-carry average in the third quarter no matter what numbers you look at. And by a huge margin. So it’s just an Eli thing.

I suspect the defense also struggles in the 3rd compared to how they do in the other three quarters, but haven’t a clue how to look that up.

This I totally buy.

Eli is a freak in several ways. During my Big Ben debate with Omni, his instinct was proven correct that the more you throw the ball in a game, the lower your passer rating will go. Ben’s dropped off precipitously, but his dropoff was unusally severe. When running the averages for the entire history of profootballreference.com or yahoo.com or whatevr data I had crawled, there was a steady decline the more passes were thrown per game.

But not Eli. His rating stayed rock-steady regardless of how many times he threw it in a game. (Never a good rating, mind you, but always the same.)

I’m not sure I follow. It sounds like you’re talking about the mythologic baseball clutch, which again I don’t think is related to football clutch in any way. It annoys me when people state something is or is not true in football because it was proven or disproven in baseball.

I would say what you’ve described is exactly what people usually mean by “clutch” when discussing QBs.

Saw this linked on the giants.com forums:

Eli is ‘The Comeback Kid’

I am glad the fine was rescinded, but I am still appalled the NFL thought it was a good call at all. This is really not as a Giant fan as we won easily despite the bad call, but if the NFL “brain-trust” doesn’t feel the officials made a terrible call then it does not speak well for football.

I don’t think so. In my experience, when people talk about “clutch” performance in football they mean the same thing as in any other sport: the player didn’t “choke,” didn’t freeze up, didn’t get nervous, summoned from within himself an exceptional effort, etc. I’ve never understood clutch to refer to a QB who happens to play well out of the Shotgun or run a clean two-minute drill and so, happily, plays well at the end of games when his team is forced into doing what he excels at.

If we’re just talking about the latter type of scenario, then I’ll gladly concede that clutchness, so defined, is a real thing in football. To the extent we’re talking about the former, though, I think inferring from baseball research that clutch is probably fake in football is reasonable – we’re talking about human nature, so why should we expect it to be different for football players as opposed to baseball players?

I’m not entirely sure what you mean, so correct me if I’m not responding to your point. I was comparing the Giants’ offensive performance in the 3rd Quarter to their overall offensive performance, as measured in DVOA ranking; so, if they were the 10th best offense overall but the 20th best offense in the 3rd Quarter, you could say that they had been under-performing in the 3rd Quarter.

The reason to judge their 3rd Quarter performance in terms of how it relates to the rest of the league’s is actually to eliminate variables: what if Eli’s QB Rating (or the Giants average points scored) dipped in the 3rd Quarter, but that was just a general trend in the league, something about getting rusty at halftime or the defense making adjustments in the locker room? By comparing them to how the rest of the league does in the 3rd Quarter, we don’t have to worry about those possibilities.

Anyway, according to both my numbers and yours, Eli and the Giants offense have been, on average, somewhat worse in the 3rd Quarter than in the rest of the game over the past four years. I would guess, however, that that’s just noise, the way the chips have happened to fall over these past 56 games. I don’t think there’s a reason for it, or that the Giants are much more likely going forward to be unusually bad in the 3rd than unusually good. Could be wrong.

Remember where this train started:

Eli’s passer rating this season:

3rd quarter: 67.4
4th quarter: 101.1

I mean, c’mon, really? That’s a pretty clear reason to believe that his third quarter passing is correspondingly inferior, isn’t it? The fact that it just plain is, regardless of the “why”?

Therefore, you can’t lump in the whole second half and say that because it’s close to the whole-game average, therefore he doesn’t play better in the fourth. Right?

Sure, I’ll concede that point. I didn’t the information you’ve mentioned about Eli’s and Brandon Jacobs’ 3rd Quarter numbers.

So, I think it’s fair to say that the numbers back up our subjective impressions that Eli has performed better in the 4th Quarter. That doesn’t necessarily mean it’s a trend that’s likely to continue, but I admit that I feel confident in Eli’s ability to play well at the end of close games, even when he struggles early.

**Giants **over Eagles last night where the **Giants ** really dominated in all areas except for capitalizing on turnovers. The **Giants ** offense looked very good, though the Eagles did a great job going after the ball and forcing fumbles. The **Giants **defense stopped Westbrook in several very key short yardage downs.

Did anyone else watch?

This means the **Giants **are 3-0 in Division and the Eagles fall to last as they are 0-3 in Division. All the Byes for the NFC East are now done.

It is very odd to see the **Giants ** lead the NFC in offense and stranger to see they lead the NFL and the **Jets **are second. Their defense is one of the best and special teams are very solid.

That was an amazing interception and return by that Eagles lineman.

Andy Reid has to put the ball in McNabb’s hands. That’s two losses from trying to smash the ball with Westbrook in short yardage situations with the game on the line. Makes no sense to me. (First was against the Bears.)

I’m not happy with the fumblitis that has infected the Giants the past two games. Hopefully they’ll correct that before the rematch of Superbowl XXXV on Sunday.

Anyone see Brees screaming at Shockey on the sidelines in the Saints game? I chuckled at that; Jeremy was probably like WTF? Since when do QBs yell? heh.

Caught Sean Payton on Sirius this morning… he said he was yelling at him for missing a block, but that it was no big deal.

I saw a clip of it. It could only be good for Shockey. I was laughing too.

McNabb looks a lot more worried about being sacked this year. He was much quicker to dump the ball than I remember from other years and he is obviously less mobile than he was. I don’t think he is wrong though to be worried. At the beginning of the year, I and many others just assumed he wouldn’t play 16 games. He seems to have gotten a bit smarter with his last injury.

The fumbles have been scary, but we know they can be corrected at least.

How did you like the way that Jacobs actually pushed the Eagle’s defensive line several times for the first down?

I don’t think the fumblitis will be a permanent issue. They were able to put a very swift end to Tiki Barber’s fumblitis years ago.

Brandon Jacobs is an absolute beast. He hurts defensive linemen. I know he’s in incredible shape, but I keep having this ghastly image of him snapping a hammy while attempting to push through a line. I hope to hell that I’m wrong.

I heard Eagles DB Sheppard on the radio this morning commenting on the situation his team is in and he basically stated that “every game is a playoff game for us now” which got this Bengals fan thinking just how well that bodes for my 1-7 team’s chances at beating a humiliated, pissed, down-but-not-out team like the Iggles.

Yippee!

As an aside, I doubt Carson Palmer will play again this season. I wish he could/would, but I fear he won’t, and there’s really no reason for him to if there’s a chance he can do serious damage to his elbow.

sigh

Long season.

And thanks to the Eagles for allowing me to win my most ridiculous fantasy side bet yet! This week I was playing against a good friend of mine, and during the course of our email back-and-forth early in the week I bet that Tomlinson was going to outscore all 3 of the RBs he had in his lineup at that point. Final tally was:

Tomlinson 10

vs.

Fast Willie 0
J Charles 0
Westbrook 5

:slight_smile:

Normally I’d disagree, as rushing is generally much more likely to succeed in short yardage situations than passing, but the Eagles are definitely built for the other thing. I think one run and one pass would’ve been about right. Anyway, nice play by Chase Blackburn on 4th Down; obviously he was unblocked, but he hit the correct hole, and he did so decisively.

This is pretty easily the best Giants offense I’ve ever seen, and it’s cool that it’s still a *traditional *Giants offense, working everything off of the running game.

Passing (plays) in short yardage make even more sense when you remember that McNabb can pull down the ball and run for five yards from a rollout in his sleep.

Oh, by the way, the Giants’ remaining schedule:

Bal (6-3)
@Ari (5-3)
@Was (6-3)
Phi (5-4)
@Dal (5-4)
Car (7-2)
@Min (5-4)

. . . and two of those 5-4 teams are (or will be) better than their records suggest. If the Giants finish 12-4 that’ll be a real accomplishment.

I think we’ll beat Baltimore and Arizona. We’ll lose at least 1 to the division rivals and at least Carolina is at home. I think the Giants are much better than Vikings and that Dome has never goven them a big homefield advantage. I would think 13-3 is reasonable.