NFL: Give an HONEST assessment of your team

So was that, like, the worst ever halftime adjustment by Shanahan (I know! We’ll stop doing the stuff that works!), or the Second Coming of Tampa Bay?

Bit of both, I think. Shanahan kept giving the ball to Ryan Torain, but the Buccaneers’ defensive line stiffened and they started bringing MLB Barrett Ruud up to the line.

Torain could beat us, but it turned out McNabb couldn’t.

No, you’re just plain wrong. Tiki Barber never outran a single person in his life and yet he has multiple 90+ yard runs. If the defenders are being blocked, they aren’t chasing you.

Another way to look at it: Justin Tuck ran LaDainian Tomlinson down from behind 40+ yards downfield in Tuck’s rookie season. Generally speaking, big runs are either from crowding the line too much, at which point you have such a head start nobody is catching you anyway, or you have receivers blocking downfield for you.

If that’s the case, you can’t really use Smith’s avg as a knock, since guys “clearly out of his league” have a lower avg.

That’s the giant leap I’m saying you are unjustified to make. You assume his catch % would stay at 61%, but we have exactly zero evidence to support that. And besides, at 61%, the QB may start looking elsewhere, at other receivers who catch it more often, thus resulting in him never being able to get 159 targets in the first place. This is a basic point you can’t just hand-wave away with assumptions that your guys scale well. Until they prove they can, you can’t make that assertion.

As to how many catches a receiver needs to convince me their production will scale, I’d say in the 80s.

Maclin was playing with McNabb last season, who is far less accurate than Eli.

Tiki Barber has an identical twin fast enough to play 15 NFL seasons at corner, and was a punt and kick returner for his first couple of seasons. He might not be the fastest guy in the world, but he’s sure as hell outrun people.

Of course you’re right. What the hell do I know, I only watched every snap of Barber’s career.

I was formulating a reply to your last post, Ellis, and decided I should catch a highlight video of Barber to show visual evidence of him outrunning people. Just to rub it in, you know? “Cite!?” and all that…

I found a great highlight video on Youtube. Tons of great runs.

He got caught from behind on every single one. Every single one involved some blocking from a WR, too. So I’ll concede that point, though I think you’re still oversimplifying it. There’s so much more to a long run than just a WR blocking (it’s a little bit silly to dismiss a 50 yard run because “the WRs did it,” right?) but I’m comfortable dropping it. It’s such a deviation from the main point that I’m not sure it matters anyway.

I still take Maclin over Smith. I still don’t think it’s close, either. I’ll take guy with the extra athleticism and big play capability, who’s younger, with every bit the skill, if not more. I also think Avant is better at the possession receiver role than Smith is, too.

So to wrap up; I don’t know if Vick is the best QB in the division, but he’s the most dangerous (in the division and the league). Exact same for DeSean Jackson, whose skill I question (again, Maclin is a more skilled receiver in my eyes). I think McCoy is the best RB in the division. I think the Eagles have the most dangerous skill position players in the league, top to bottom.

Did he get caught from behind by a lineman on every single one? Ellis says he never outran anyone, not that he never outran an entire defense. :wink:

I agree with your characterization of DeSean Jackson; he’s not a great receiver. He’s ten times more valuable than Maclin, though; there are at least forty guys in the league that can offer what Maclin does, and maybe three who offer what Jackson does.