NFL offseason discussion (up to but not including draft)

The Game Room
561

He sounds like he might be intoxicated or something.

Man what a mess that team is in. One 11-5 season brought out all the “lifelong” Bengals fans with their shiny new Palmer jerseys, and now they’ve crawled back into the woodwork.

Housh wants a new big contract - I don’t know if they’ve got the cash to pay. Chad is clearly severely unhappy and Marvin had to threaten to force him to sit out the length of his contract. Their #3 receiver was arrested again and cut. Their defense isn’t getting any better, and the receiving core is suffering some major problems. Worst of all it seems like the inmates run the asylum.

Man, with the AFC North schedule, the bungles and rats are in for a rough year. Anyone want to take action on whether Ray Ray or Chad is the first guy to stab/punch their coach?

562

[QUOTE=SenorBeef]
Housh wants a new big contract - I don’t know if they’ve got the cash to pay. Chad is clearly severely unhappy and Marvin had to threaten to force him to sit out the length of his contract. Their #3 receiver was arrested again and cut. Their defense isn’t getting any better, and the receiving core is suffering some major problems. Worst of all it seems like the inmates run the asylum.
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On the bright side, Peter Warrick and Corey Dillon are available. They could re-sign them and go back to sucking but not being arrested.

563

[QUOTE=SenorBeef]
So guess who got arrested again!

Chris Henry!

With Housh talking about a holdout for a new contract, Cinci threatning to make Chad sit for the next 3 years if he doesn’t play nice, and Henry getting arrested again, the Bengals WR corps is in great shape.

I wonder if any of the sports books had a prop bet on what happened first: Housh showing up to camp, Chad slapping Marvin around and/or showing up to camp, or Henry getting arrested. I wish I could’ve gotten in on that action.

I remember the good old days when the AFC North’s only thugs were Stabbin Ray and friends. Cinci managed to shoot way out ahead of them, but Pittsburgh is trying to catch up with their women beating ways. Only the Browns have a clean record.
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While it sucks about Henry, it isn’t very surprising. He was one of our “character risk” draftees that sadly will now never pan out. The guy is a striaght-up knucklehead of the highest order.

As far as Houshmanzadeh, he hasn’t been talking about a holdout…he skipped voluntaries last season too, and played his best year. TJ will get a new contract from the Bengals, and sooner rather than later.

As for Chad, as much of a prima donna “me-first” crybaby that he is, has already stated that he’ll be in camps when he’s supposed to be there. The Bengals have him by the balls. They already reworked his contract when they didn’t have to a few years ago, and since it was frontloaded, Chad now wants more money. Tough shit, Chad. Quit banging your spoon on the highchair and play football!

Marvin had a presser a few days ago where he stated that Chad will either play for the Bengals next season or retire. But he also softened his stance a bit and said he’d “take bullets for Chad”, meaning he’d help him repair the damage to his image with the fans here in Cincinnatti.

Overall, this sucks for my team, but all it really does is force the Bengals to draft a WR in the first three rounds now instead of expending that extra pick on defense.

Honestly, Marvin’s conference gave me hope. He’s basically saying we’re going back to smashmouth football, which is what the AFCN is supposed to be about. We got way too pass-happy the last couple years and it didn’t get us far as we lacked a running game (for a lack of effort AND oline/RB injuries) and our defense was shoddy.

I expect the defense to have a surprising turnaround with our FA acquisitions, players returning from injuries (most of our LB’s) and draft picks (Sedrick Ellis, please!).

564

[QUOTE=SenorBeef]

Man, with the AFC North schedule, the bungles and rats are in for a rough year. Anyone want to take action on whether Ray Ray or Chad is the first guy to stab/punch their coach?
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I’ll put fifty on Stabbin’ Ray. John Harbaugh looks like the sort of guy a reasonable man might want to throttle after a few weeks. At least Marvin Lewis has an icy stare that might give Chad a moment to pause.

565

Did they ever have that pro bowl skills competition thing this year? With the best hands, fastest man, etc competition?

566

[QUOTE=SenorBeef]
Did they ever have that pro bowl skills competition thing this year? With the best hands, fastest man, etc competition?
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I can’t remember when they hold that, but Carson and Chad always do really well in those.
Are you perhaps insinuating that we have a “best shot”, “best bar brawler”, “best coach puncher” competition?
:slight_smile:

567

[QUOTE=SenorBeef]
Cinci threatning to make Chad sit for the next 3 years if he doesn’t play nice
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That’s an empty threat. According to the last CBA, the maximum you can deactivate a player for is four games. After four games, you have to either reactivate him or cut him. I believe you cannot bar any player from OTAs, training camp or preseason either.

This was snuck in after Keyshawn Johnson and later Terrell Owens were buried for the remainder of a season as a punishment. Though they still got paid, their free agent value was hurt because they weren’t able to play for so long. Out of sight, out of mind.

So, not sure where you heard that “sit for three years” thing, but if Marvin actually said it, he might want to brush up on the league rules.

CBA extension latest accomplishment for Upshaw

568

[QUOTE=Ellis Dee]
That’s an empty threat. According to the last CBA, the maximum you can deactivate a player for is four games. After four games, you have to either reactivate him or cut him. I believe you cannot bar any player from OTAs, training camp or preseason either.

This was snuck in after Keyshawn Johnson and later Terrell Owens were buried for the remainder of a season as a punishment. Though they still got paid, their free agent value was hurt because they weren’t able to play for so long. Out of sight, out of mind.

So, not sure where you heard that “sit for three years” thing, but if Marvin actually said it, he might want to brush up on the league rules.

CBA extension latest accomplishment for Upshaw
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The 4 games thing is, IIRC, the amount of time the team can punish someone without pay for some sort of infraction.

What Lewis said was that Chad can’t force the Bengals to trade or cut him - they have all the power. They can force him to either play for the Bengals or retire. He was threatning that if Chad sits out, the Bengals can still keep him on the roster for 3 years (IIRC they said 2011). So Chad can sit - and he’d get paid except for any performance bonuses - but he can’t force the Bengals to trade him.

Basically, he’s saying “go ahead, hold out, it won’t do anything, we have all the power” as a tool to try to keep him from holding out.

569

[QUOTE=SenorBeef]
The 4 games thing is, IIRC, the amount of time the team can punish someone without pay for some sort of infraction.

What Lewis said was that Chad can’t force the Bengals to trade or cut him - they have all the power. They can force him to either play for the Bengals or retire. He was threatning that if Chad sits out, the Bengals can still keep him on the roster for 3 years (IIRC they said 2011). So Chad can sit - and he’d get paid except for any performance bonuses - but he can’t force the Bengals to trade him.

Basically, he’s saying “go ahead, hold out, it won’t do anything, we have all the power” as a tool to try to keep him from holding out.
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Again, that is not allowed. The rule was specifically instituted to prevent the situations that Keyshawn Johnson and Terrell Owens found themselves in. Neither of them had committed any infractions.

The teams sat both of them down for the rest of the season for no reason other than they were being a PITA. (“Conduct detrimental to the team.”) The latest CBA specifically prohibits this.

ETA: If Marvin is saying he’ll let Chad hold out for three years, that’s perfectly allowed. The way you’ve described it, though, is that Marvin has told him to shut up about being traded or they’ll sit him. They can’t sit him for more than four games. But Chad can sit himself out for the remainder of his contract if he wanted.

Marvin is wrong about one thing: he does not have all the power. Players can make a real headache of themselves within the rules, and as long as Chad keeps showing up, they’ll have to either suck it up or trade/cut him.

570

I think the confusion here is over deactivation without pay and simply not having them start a game. Chad Johnson has no right to be a starter - or even to be a game-day activation - while still being able to be carried on the roster. I think those other cases had the players not getting paid as punishment.

There are backups that spend the whole year on the roster without actually being activated on game day. They could do the same thing to Chad. They’d still have to pay him, although he’d miss out on performance/starting/etc bonuses.

571

[QUOTE=SenorBeef]
I think the confusion here is over deactivation without pay and simply not having them start a game. Chad Johnson has no right to be a starter - or even to be a game-day activation - while still being able to be carried on the roster. I think those other cases had the players not getting paid as punishment.

There are backups that spend the whole year on the roster without actually being activated on game day. They could do the same thing to Chad. They’d still have to pay him, although he’d miss out on performance/starting/etc bonuses.
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No, they were paid. Don’t you remember the interview with Keyshawn Johnson that year? He was crowing about getting paid to lounge on his couch.

Terrell Owens was also paid by the Eagles. In both cases, the two wide receivers (why is it always wide receivers?) were barred from the training facilities, practices, and games, despite still getting paid and not serving any kind of punishment for an infraction.

The players union was rightfully pretty pissed about this new tactic, and wrote it into the next CBA that it couldn’t be done anymore.

If Marvin wants to spend one of his precious 53 slots on a guy he doesn’t intend to play, I think he’s crazy. But you’re right, Marvin can let Chad come to practices and sit in streetclothes on the sidelines during games if he wants.

Of course, so could the Eagles and Bucs, but the point is that Keyshawn and TO were huge distractions in the locker room, and management just wanted the headache to go away without letting them go play for a rival.

What I’m saying is that I think Chad is equally capable of being a massive distraction/headache, and if Marvin thinks he can just carry Chad on the 53-man roster without playing him and Chad will just sit there and be a model citizen, he’s fucking crazy.

In such a scenario, Chad could derail the entire franchise without breaking a single rule, and short of cutting/trading him, Marvin can’t do anything to keep Chad out of the locker room, away from practice, or off the sideline during games.

Marvin needs to rethink his whole “I have the power” strategy, because he doesn’t. And I guarantee Chad already knows it.

572

I think it’s a threat that he doesn’t intend to carry out. By trying to convince Chad it’s “play nice or retire”, he might get him to stop holding out and talking openly about wanting to be traded. I don’t think he would actually carry Chad on the roster for a few years uselessly, but he has to act like he’s willing to in order to get Chad to drop the requests for trades.

It’s all talk at this stage. Chad will probably play for the Bengals this year, but unless they start winning early, it won’t be happily.

Maybe Chad will sit out, and TJ sits out due to the contract issue, and Chris Henry got cut, and so the starting #1 WR for the Bengals becomes… let’s say Cedric Wilson. His 1 or 2 arrests (I forget) are way below the Bengals average.

573

[QUOTE=SenorBeef]
I think it’s a threat that he doesn’t intend to carry out. By trying to convince Chad it’s “play nice or retire”, he might get him to stop holding out and talking openly about wanting to be traded. I don’t think he would actually carry Chad on the roster for a few years uselessly, but he has to act like he’s willing to in order to get Chad to drop the requests for trades.

It’s all talk at this stage. Chad will probably play for the Bengals this year, but unless they start winning early, it won’t be happily.

Maybe Chad will sit out, and TJ sits out due to the contract issue, and Chris Henry got cut, and so the starting #1 WR for the Bengals becomes… let’s say Cedric Wilson. His 1 or 2 arrests (I forget) are way below the Bengals average.
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A few things: TJ has never indicated that he’s holding out. And he will get a new deal from the Bengals, he’s good and works/plays hard.

Chad has said he’s going to show up, and odds are he’ll play. He loves his precious stats too much not to.

Finally, there are other teams in the NFL that have had just as many or more arrests than the Bengals since 2005. Why do you never hear of that? Because the Bengals are still perceived as the lowly team they once were in the 1990’s-early 2000’s.

574

[QUOTE=SenorBeef]
What Lewis said was that Chad can’t force the Bengals to trade or cut him - they have all the power. They can force him to either play for the Bengals or retire. He was threatning that if Chad sits out, the Bengals can still keep him on the roster for 3 years (IIRC they said 2011). So Chad can sit - and he’d get paid except for any performance bonuses - but he can’t force the Bengals to trade him.
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No, he’d forfeit his game checks if he refused to play. He’d only get paid his roster bonus(es).

Anyway, Johnson and Whosyourmama will both be on the field by Week 1. For all his gaudy numbers last season, Housh is a complementary receiver and he knows it, and Johnson, for all his mouth-running, is a gamer.

Cite?

575

[QUOTE=FoieGrasIsEvil]
A few things: TJ has never indicated that he’s holding out. And he will get a new deal from the Bengals, he’s good and works/plays hard.

Chad has said he’s going to show up, and odds are he’ll play. He loves his precious stats too much not to.

Finally, there are other teams in the NFL that have had just as many or more arrests than the Bengals since 2005. Why do you never hear of that? Because the Bengals are still perceived as the lowly team they once were in the 1990’s-early 2000’s.
[/QUOTE]

Outside of a couple of decent seasons (including the 11-5 season) they pretty much ARE still the same Bengals, right?

Besides, the other team with more arrests has a name. They’re called the “Cowboys”.

576

[QUOTE=Least Original User Name Ever]
Outside of a couple of decent seasons (including the 11-5 season) they pretty much ARE still the same Bengals, right?
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Well, that 11-5 season would almost have certainly have resulted in a Super Bowl berth if not for Palmer’s injury in the Steelers game, IMHO.

One SB appearance was enough to earn Jeff Fisher and John Fox the “great coach” moniker the announcers like to throw around so much.

577

[QUOTE=Really Not All That Bright]
Well, that 11-5 season would almost have certainly have resulted in a Super Bowl berth if not for Palmer’s injury in the Steelers game, IMHO.

One SB appearance was enough to earn Jeff Fisher and John Fox the “great coach” moniker the announcers like to throw around so much.
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Yeah, it was a damn shame to see that. I think Palmer will have a good year this year. Nice Ewing Theory potential with Chad Johnson, assuming he’s gone.

578

[QUOTE=Really Not All That Bright]
No, he’d forfeit his game checks if he refused to play. He’d only get paid his roster bonus(es).

Anyway, Johnson and Whosyourmama will both be on the field by Week 1. For all his gaudy numbers last season, Housh is a complementary receiver and he knows it, and Johnson, for all his mouth-running, is a gamer.

Cite?
[/QUOTE]

These are the teams around or above the the number of Bengals players arrested since 2005. I only counted each player one time. Players names may have spelling errors as I was writing them down quickly

  1. Vikings - 13
    Bryant McKinnie
    Darion Scott
    Dwight Smith
    Ronyell Whitaker
    Cedric Griffin
    Travis Taylor
    Koren Robinson
    Moe Williams
    Daunte Culpepper
    Fred Smoot
    Marcus Johnson
    Kevin Williams
    Kelly Campbell

  2. Jags - 12
    Brat Hawkins
    Stockar McDougle
    Justin Durant
    Richard Collier
    Khalif Barnes
    Ahmad Carrol
    Gerald Sensebaugh
    Charles Sharon
    Bobby McCrae
    Brian Williams
    Reggie Williams
    Tommy Hendricks

  3. Titans - 10
    Lendale White
    Adam Jones
    Robert Reynolds
    Randy Starks
    Cortland Finnegan
    Albert Haynesworth
    Tyrone Calico
    Brad Hopkins
    Tank Williams
    Samari Rolle

  4. Broncos - 10
    Marcus Thomas
    Andre Hall
    Daniel Graham
    Todd Saurbrun
    Darrell Hackney
    Brandon Marshal
    David Kircus
    DJ williams
    Sam Brandon
    Willie Middlebrooks

  5. Dolphins - 9
    Matt Roth
    Chris Chambers
    Kelly Campbell
    Fred Evans
    Joey Porter
    Keith Traylor
    Damien McInstosh
    Randy McMichael
    Quinton Williams

  6. Bengals - 9
    Chris Henry
    Quincy Wilson
    AJ Nicholson
    Jonathon Joseph
    Deltha O’neal
    Reggie McNeal
    Odell Thurman
    Eric Steinbach
    Mathias Askew

  7. Chargers - 8
    Anthony Walters
    Ryan Krause
    Terrence Kiel
    Cletis Gordon
    Markus Curry
    Steve Foley
    Shawn Phillips
    Derrick Robinson

  8. Colts - 8
    Darrell Reid
    Dhominic Rhodes
    DeDe Dorsey
    Cato June
    Vincent Burns
    Nick Harper
    Mike Doss
    Montae Reagor

  9. Steelers - 8
    Cedrick Wilson
    James Harrison
    Najeh Davenport
    Richard Siegler
    Deshea Townsend
    Barret Brooks
    Santomio Holmes
    Trai Essex
    It’s also well known, that a member of the Bengals is much more likely to be arrested in Cincinnati then say, a Cowboy in Dallas… Some cities have more of a ‘look the other way’ policy towards athletes than others. Not that I agree with that, but it is how it is.

579

The numbers for the Vikings are hugely inflated by the loveboat scandal… and the organization has jettisoned almost all of those players.
And the Bengals players are particularly well known not for merely getting arrested, but getting arrested time and time again. These figures would be a lot more interesting if you included the total number of lockups, as opposed to just the number of players who have, at some point, run afoul of the law.

580

[QUOTE=Diomedes]
The numbers for the Vikings are hugely inflated by the loveboat scandal… and the organization has jettisoned almost all of those players.
And the Bengals players are particularly well known not for merely getting arrested, but getting arrested time and time again. These figures would be a lot more interesting if you included the total number of lockups, as opposed to just the number of players who have, at some point, run afoul of the law.
[/QUOTE]

Matthias Askew was exonerated in a wrongful tasering lawsuit…
Chris Henry got arrested five times (does that answer your “Bengal players get arrested time and time again” issue?)
So…the numbers are HUGELY inflated by the Chris Henry issue as well…and Steinbach got a BUI and is now a happy member of the Browns…