**mnemosyne
** Take a pill. The league is nowhere near as bad as you make it out to be. It’s a tough game to ref; there’s no collusion or favouritism. Give it a break please.
Have we arrived at “you’d like him if he were on your favorite team” argument already? Normally defenders will first try to defend the indefensible actions and, when that doesn’t work, defend the player as more than just a goon because they can [insert one: agitate, score, contribute to special teams, help little old ladies across the street] before pulling this one out.
Many have used this silly rationale in defense of guys like Avery, Neil, Pronger, Cooke and numerous others and it falls down as soon as one realizes that A) no, I wouldn’t actually want that douchebag on my team, B) even if I did, it doesn’t excuse his actions and C) just because you, a fan of team Y that player X plays for, immediately jump to his defense doesn’t mean that everyone else is so unobjectively biased and would do the same for a player that plays on their team.
Lucic committed an act that not only was worse than what others have been suspended for, but was a hit to an area the League has gotten very sensitive about over the past few years and didn’t even earn a review. If you want to pass off my and others disappointment and disgust with this continued inconsistency bordering on absolute incompetence from the League as “sour grapes” then you’re missing the point entirely.
I think Langenbrunner was just a rental. The #1 priority is to try to resign Richards. After that, they need some serious defense upgrades and I wouldn’t mind a reliable, young backup goalie.
Ok, I’ve had enough of this. One of these players is not like the others. Chris Neil has never to my knowledge been suspended by the league. Every other player on this listed has been suspended multiple times, so stop with the cheap shots already, would you?
Chris Neil is a dirty player. That he hasn’t been suspended for his actions by the inconsistent Wheel of Justice is not evidence to the contrary.
The list wasn’t meant as a list of similar players in any capacity other than a short list of guys off the top of my head that I wouldn’t want on my team but whom I’ve seen defended with the “you’d like him and put up with his crap if he were on your team” nonsense.
How about a player such as Steve Ott? I’m not really glad to have him on my team. He has let up on some of the really cheap shots he used to take, but he still takes too many dumb penalties. I wonder if other teams want to see if the can get him worked up to encourage him to take stupid penalties since the Stars penalty kill sucks.
I’m going to jump in and also defend Chris Neil on this one. Where are the dirty hits? I’m an unabashed Sens homer, so I guess it bothers me when people typecast him in these roles. They call him a talentless goon when he would be a legit third line winger even without fighting. They call him a spot picker even though he’s fought Orr and Parros in the past. Not saying you are, but there’s a lot of hate for him.
You can youtube some of hits and see an iffy one against John Mitchell, and a perfectly clean yet really hard hit on the Rookie Victor Hedman. But putting him in the same category as Pronger and Cooke is ignorant. He’s at best a pest along the lines of Rick Rypien and Jarkko Ruutu.
ETA: Having read your earlier post, I see where you’re coming from. But I still disagree that he’s dirty.
I only see him when the Sens play the Devils or Islanders, but when I think of Chris Neil I think of stuff like this or this. Even as rarely as I see him play, I’ve seen him do stuff like this more than once, though I will admit that I haven’t noticed him doing it lately.
Video number two was in the Stanley Cup final after Chris Pronger DESTROYED Dean McAmmond in game three, so I give him a pass on that, rightly or wrongly. You expect harder and more intense stuff in the playoffs. Even still, Andy McDonald wasn’t hurt, and he scored all three of his team’s goals that night, so it wasn’t like he laid him out and put him out of commission.
Look, I won’t sit here and pretend Neil is a Lady Bing candidate. I’d even agree with your earlier assessment that he’s a “dick you hate until he’s on your team” type guy like Ruutu or Rypien. But that’s more because of his post-fight antics at SBP than anything else. I can find you videos of Martin Havlat, Daniel Alfredsson, or even Marian Hossa doing worse shit as a Senator. Hell, Crosby suckerpunched a guy in the nut sack! 
Doesn’t mean any of them are categorically dirty players.
Jarome Iginla scored his 30th goal of the season as the Flames beat the Predators tonight. That’s now ten straight seasons for Iggy with 30 goals or more, only the tenth player in history to do that. Of the other nine, only Bobby Hull did it in an era when the average goals per game never rose above six (well, sort of; Hull did it thirteen years in a row, the average goals per game not rising above six until year twelve.)
Grats to him; he had a realll slow start to the year, looked like it was the beginning of the end for him!
Deliberate dirty behavior makes one a dirty player. There really aren’t any additional qualifiers. Perhaps one might argue a minimum quota, as everyone makes mistakes, but that’s a discussion for another time I think.
Regardless, I wasn’t specifically calling out Neil for any particular reason, nor was I trying to equate him, or any of the players I listed, to one another except as guys I wouldn’t want on my team. And, quite frankly, I don’t much feel like debating the circumstances behind each and every questionable act Neil has ever committed with an admitted Sens homer. If it helps, omit his name from my sentence when you read it and replace it with the dirty player of your choice.
My earlier assessment wasn’t that “he’s a dick you hate until he’s on your team.” It was actually the opposite. That such a defense of guys like [insert dirty player here not named Chris Neil] in that manner is flat out wrong because it assumes a unanimous acceptance by hockey fans of dirty players so long as they play on their team.
:rolleyes:
Ok, I don’t actually think the league is organized enough to set up some teams to win and some to fail or whatever. So I agree, there’s no collusion.
As for favouritism: I believe that some refs are either consciously or unconsciously biased in favour of or against certain teams. I’m convinced that, for whatever reason, they watch a game with an eye on one set of players more than others (same as I do as a fan of my team, but I’m a fan, not an official) and therefore miss a lot of what happens to/by the other team. I think some, probably most, refs are aware of this and at least try and mitigate it (hence the make-up call). I think others aren’t aware of it, or are aware and don’t care, and I think it definitely shows in the calls they make. I think the league is lacking in the way they evaluate refereeing, in the lack of accountability, and in the way that they won’t own up to blatantly bad calls (in comparison, I point to the CFL, where for example last year a bad call allowed the Lions to beat the Als in a regular season game…the league reviewed it, acknowledged it was a bad call, and tried to work to avoid it in the future).
I think the league certainly sees certain players - or players on certain teams - in a better light than others, undeservedly. To use specific recent examples, I don’t think Gillies has done something that other players haven’t done before, more often, or worse. I fail to understand how the league can look at one case and say “no foul” and look at another similar or identical one and say “it’s a travesty, 10 game suspension”.
I believe this league sucks at officiating and discipline, and I will continue to bitch about it for as long as I please, TYVM.
Anyone want to start taking odds on when the last game played in Phoenix will be?
I read it like the concept of “game theory” we learned in economics class. Under the current structure of the league, your team is aided by having a dirty player, and hurt by not. There is seemingly no downside to dressing a player like that, unless you think it becomes a case of “you reap what you sow.”
What does a team do when the player gets suspended then, call up another one? How many should a team have in the system to ensure that there’s always a dirty player available to slot into the bottom 6?
There absolutely is a downside to dressing players like that. They could seriously injure or even kill someone. They could bring negative publicity to your team. They could get suspended for their actions and remove some competitiveness from your team if they’re not just a goon but actually have some talent. They could get the team fined. They could inspire referees to call reputation penalties and force your team to play on the PK more often than they should. And so on.
Besides, the same argument has been made about enforcers and yet Detroit seems to be doing just fine with only 9 fighting majors all season.
All good points. Yet, as you identified in your previous post (I think), suspensions are doled out in uneven globs by the league. Matt Cooke (to name the name most frequently brought up) hasn’t done anything to really diminish his teams popularity. Pens fans on here alone stand up for him. I stand up for Chris Neil, who apparently is a dirty player. Hell, I have five Islanders Fans among Facebook Friends, and three of them added Trevor Gilles (I did too, just to see if it was actually him. It appears that it is. :D).
I’ve yet to see a (competitive) team that was hurt by their enforcers, although some have suggested the way around this is to cap the roster at 21 or 20 players. Maybe that’s the way to go, to make sure teams need every slot for a player who’s not a one-dimensional fighter.
I didn’t see the hit Chara made on the Habs player because my attention was elsewhere. I did see the aftermath and whatever punishment he gets probably will be too light. Whether Chara meant to hurt the guy is irrelevant because the League needs to stop hits like that.
I also hope the player makes a quick and full recovery.
Sick sick sick sick sick sick. Chara’s been in this league - and playing hockey - long enough to know how dangerous the boards are along the benches. The puck was long gone, and the fact that he pushed forward towards the stanchion. Sick. I want him out of the league.
And Lucic being all tough-guy trying to goon it up with Pouliot at the end of the match. Really? Pacioretty leaves on a goddamn stretcher, and you think you have a fucking point to make? What a pathetic piece of shit. And have enough respect for the other players of the game to not leave the ice smiling. There was nothing to smile about tonight; not even with the W for the Habs.
The league wanted to send a message with the suspension to Trevor Gillies. Now fucking send a REAL ONE with a long suspension for Chara.
Fuck, it’s 7 years to the day when Bertuzzi ended Steve Moore’s career. Haven’t we learned ANYTHING?!?!
GET WELL SOON, PATCHES!
The Dallas Stars have a gift from the schedule gods: A 7 game homestand! 2 weeks at home with Brad Richards getting healthy. Make or break time.