Bush did do it, though. And it seems like you thought it was OK- or if not, you have to go through some weird logical contortions to approve of torture and assassination but not spying.
No, before Bush. Try to imagine a world existing before your last most favourite Republican president.
Yes… the president of the United States gets his security briefings from the news media. :smack:
What are you even talking about? 
It has been going (the NSA spying on everybody, friend and foe alike) for quite longer than five years. Try at least 53 (that we know of), as I mentioned in Post #17 of this thread.
Obama, Bush II, Clinton, Bush I, Reagan, and so on all the way to Eisenhower – under all of them the NSA spied on friend and foe alike, and intercepted the communications of their leaders. Blaming Obama or Bush for this is disingenuous. EVERY administration has allowed the NSA to do that because the NSA has been consistently useful for the different governments that came and went.
Now the shit hit the fan thanks to Snowden’s revelations – like it hit the fan in frikin’ 1960 thanks to Martin and Mitchell’s revelations.
Nihil novum sub sole
Curiously, according to one report about the most recently released Snowden information, the NSA has been spying on behalf of the largest US corporations to secure confidential information from their overseas competitors. I can’t imagine that Boeing, as a critical US corporation involved in the defense industry was not the beneficiary of this intelligence. If we look at this in an entirely economic manner, then NSA probably came out ahead in the entire deal.
But, of course, that may have been true before President Obama ruined everything, right Ralph?
Well, it is Ralphie we’re dealing with.
Well, not really, but the generally reliable industry publication lays out Brazil’s decision-making process on the selection of the Gripen, and it’s highly doubtful that the Snowden leaks (or anything Obama might have done) had anything at all to do with it.
Buying fighters is not like buying a box of pens. These are highly complex and vastly expensive machines which have to meet the combat needs of a country for decades to be viable, and any responsible government is not going to make this decision on a whim.
So, what does Aviation Week say?
[Quote=Aviation Week]
Brazil’s defense ministry said that the Gripen was the least costly contender and also met the country’s requirement for sufficient technology transfer to ensure that Brazil’s ability to operate the aircraft would depend as little as possible on continued support from the supplier.
[/quote]
My bolding.
The article goes on to say that Gripen and other contenders were short-listed in 2008 and that the Brazilian Air Force “submitted its analysis and recommendations in January 2010.” Might one suppose that the recommended acquisiton was the Gripen to begin with?
The article goes on to provide at least two reasons for the timing of the decision, both based on Brazil’s internal affairs and having nothing to do with NSA spying.
So, ralph124c, any chance you might stop claiming authority regarding subjects on which you clearly know nothing?
Hey, I know I’m pissing in the wind, but I wanted to give it a shot anyway.
Oh, sorry for the double post, but I should mention that the Gripen uses an engine manufactured by US-based General Electric. I’m sure ralph will be relieved that the US is getting something out of the deal.
Well, you remember what Bush said when they told him about the 35 Brazilian fighters being killed…
Man, modern warbirds are expensive. 4.5 Billion only gets you 36 of the cheap planes :eek:.
Wiki says the Gripen usually runs to about 50-60 Million apiece, which is a considerable difference. I assume the price includes all the support stuff, training, simulators, setting up maintenance facilities etc, etc.
Probably not, no.
Fact is, that’s the big ripoff when buying foreign military gear (and the big selling point, as far as the seller is concerned) : you buy the stuff as is. Then you use it, it gets damaged or worn, meaning you get to buy spare parts and repair experts. And now they’ve got you by the curlies, because it’s either pay whatever they ask (and align with them geopolitically) or kiss your high fangled gear that you already sunk fortunes into goodbye.
Ask Iran - of the 79 F-14s they bought from the US, there are only 44 left, with ~19 fit for service. The others have either been destroyed or cannibalized for parts over the years, since the US won’t provide them any more.
Actually, i just went and read that newsweek artilcle listed above, it says explicity that the deal includes.
Quote “* initial support and spares, training, flight simulators, technology transfer and industrial cooperation.*”.
So it looks like it’s a fairly complete package.
Also it seems pretty unlikely that Sweden and Brazil are ever likely to find themselves at geo-political daggers drawn.