I think you people are overestimating kids. This show is the kind of show that parents MAKE their kids watch. If a kid saw this, they wouldn’t think intolerance they would think “Aww man, I wanted to watch Rugrats”
Erek
Unlike other debators, I do not like to speak about what’s on other people’s minds since my mindreading powers have been on the fritz lately. Therefore I can only posts my own position.
I’ve read every single one of your posts Saen. I understood them just fine too. You are trying to set up parellels between the people who disagree with the religious right and those in the religious right who seek to censor those who disagree with them.
Hey, don’t blow a gasket with me because I see that your reasoning is flawed. Or, if you think I’m misrepresenting your view, show me where. Again, I’m using the words “me” and “I” because I can only post for myself. I thought I’d clarify that yet again. Just in case.
So Saen, how about giving me that “clue” you think I so desperately need? How is my understanding of what you’ve posted so far different from what I’ve been responding to?
*JerseyDiamond, I am just curious—after spending all these years teaching your daughter that homosexuality is wrong and unnatural and unacceptable and immoral, what would your reaction be if she turns out to be gay? Assuming, of course, she doesn’t kill herself out of terror at telling her Loving Dad . . .
[Goddam wrong, unnatural and unacceptable codes . . . Coffee . . . need coffee . . .]
Neither Nickelodeon nor anyone else is obligated to poke one of their eyes out to conform to your view that there is only one lane on the road. In fact, I’m more offended by people trying to convince others that there is only one lane. If you want to go through life one-eyed, great, but don’t try to convince others that depth perception doesn’t exist.
Eve, I’d like to address your question to JD, although first we need to talk about the word “unnatural.”
The Bible says that there is nothing good in the flesh, meaning basically that ANY human being is capable of ANY sin, big or small, from the most heinous down to little white lies.
Since Christians believe we are born into sin, in a way homosexuality is NOT unnatural. It’s considered a sin, which we’re born into, thus it’s not unnatural to the human condition.
We are called to come out of sin, though.
I wish, I wish, I wish church people would truly get a revelation that, in their human condition, they are capable of doing ANYTHING, given the right circumstances. It’s only in the spiritual that we have a chance of being what God calls us to be. Maybe if people did realize what they really ARE capable of, they wouldn’t yell so loudly about one or two specific sins.
To answer your question to JD, if my daughter turned out to be a lesbian, I would of course be hurt and upset, but she’d still be my baby and I’d love her no matter what.
" . . . if my daughter turned out to be a lesbian, I would of course be hurt and upset, but she’d still be my baby and I’d love her no matter what."
—I think that’s great (the “love her” part, not the “hurt and upset” part) and you’re to be commended. But does your daughter know this, or would she be too terrified to even tell you if she was gay?
Saen - You are correct. Other than the part about it not being “all about” Biggirl, I can’t find anything specifically insulting to any poster. Perhaps it was the tone of your posts I was objecting to. Mea Culpa.
Jersey, thank you for answering my question. As for the rest of your post, well, we’ve been down this road before and are going to have to agree to disagree on this point.
Joe, what musicguy said.
Eve, Jersey is a woman.
This only goes so far, I’m afraid. If their parents are teaching them to, say, hate black people and harass them at every opportunity, I’d say that I have a moral obligation to interfere with that. If the parents are bigoted cretins, they’re going to raise children who are as well, and frankly we can do with a lot fewer of those in the world.
I think what really bugs me is that a fair number of the people who aren’t content to simply change the channel, but instead try to get shows like this yanked altogether, would welcome with open arms a program titled, Mel Gibson presents “Homosexuality Is A Filthy, Sinful Perversion That Should Be Eliminated.” They’d have their pastors at the pulpit encouraging families to sit down and watch it, and they be writing letters of praise. It isn’t that they don’t like propaganda; they don’t like propaganda that encourages acceptance of differences from the “Judeo-Christian norm.”
Well, sorry, folks, but that dog don’t hunt. Sure, you have a right to educate your children in the moral atmosphere you see fit. But your kids don’t exist in a vacuum–they have to interact with other people. And how they are taught to interact with those people, and especially with those people who aren’t like Mom and Dad, goes a long way towards where we are as a nation.
After all, it wasn’t the kind of parents and kids who sit down to watch this program and others like it who killed Matthew Sheppard, or who lynched Emmet Till, or who try to take adoptive parents’ kids away from them. It was the kind who try to get things like this taken off the air. That’s a filthy, sinful perversion.
Jersey, while we have some disagreements over how God expects us to treat gay people, I have never had a problem with the idea that you have a right to raise your child with the moral views you espouse. I presume they are founded strongly on the teachings of Christ, and to a lesser extent on the views of Paul, John, James, and the writers of the O.T.
And I don’t think anybody else here would have the slightest objection to that either.
I have two main points to make to you: (1) There is a very large difference in my mind between “condoning homosexuality” if you believe it sinful, and condemning people who practice it. IF you happen to be right on the proper interpretation of Scripture (and you certainly are espousing the traditional understanding of it), then Esprix and all his colleagues, including the folks that the Nick. show highlighted, are in fact unrepentant sinners. But, dear lady, IMHO it is God’s prerogative to do the condemning. It is not ours. People like Wildmon and the Traditional Values Coalition are not merely affirming your Biblically-based stance; they’re attempting to make it mandatory that everybody have to follow that stance. That is where I draw the line.
Secondly, though we differ in some matters on how we follow our mutual Lord, I humbly implore you to take my word on this: Jerry Falwell is no minister of the Gospel. He is a power-hungry demogogue who is using his abilities to preach and create controversy to demonize those with whom he is opposed. He regularly violates the commandments of God in his frenzied efforts to stir up a controversy through which he can gain more money and power for his “ministry” complex. He is an evil man, by your standards and mine. I’ll be glad to go into inordinate detail on how he has borne false witness against his fellow clergymen, against almost every prominent liberal you can name, where he has incited people who hold to Biblical Christianity against a variety of well-meaning people whose sole faults are that they got in his way…
WV Woman, it’s been my experience that at conversion and after God takes our sinful human natures and reshapes our lives to follow Him, working with who we are to make each of us the best person that that person can be. What then is what He will do to reshape the inner spirit of a gay man? IMHO, it would be to be the best gay man that that person can be – and I’ve seen this happen.
Okay, the show is over now. What did everybody think? (I opt out of the opinions because I didn’t see it.)
That’s a lovely straw man there, musicguy. Show me where I said that, and I’ll gladly respond to it.
So far, it wouldn’t appear that anyone that was against it, actually watched it to see what they were against. Those of us that did have posted our opinions. I would be interested in hearing others though.
I was being sarcastic because of your use of the word “agenda”. Which agenda do you suppose they were pursuing? Also, when you speak of this agenda, where is that information coming from? Was that your conclusion after seeing the show? Did you watch it? Or, was that based on information from another source, perhaps one that hadn’t seen the show either.
Joe_Cool,
I also am still interested in learning why anyone shouldn’t be nice to kids of gay parents? Did these kids do anything wrong at all? Or are they being judged by association? Why is a show that basically says that this is wrong considered bad?
Any chance you might want to make some sort of actual argument here sometime? You know, state a position, back it up with facts, that sorta thing? It’s usually considered to be good form when debating…
<b>Eve</b>, my daughter is 2 years old. The subject hasn’t come up yet.
<b>Polycarp</b>, we’re going to have to disagree on this. God calls sinners out of darkness, and He does require change. Saying all He would want a gay convert to do is be the “best gay man he can be” is like saying God saves, say, bank robbers with the intent of them being the best bank robbers they can be.
No, I am not saying being gay and a bank robber are the same thing.
If all sin is equal in the eyes of God, and I believe it is, God would require someone to come out of that lifestyle. The cool thing about God is, He gives people the power to do it.
/end hijack
also /end any attempts at me making my posts pretty
Stupid html 
And people wonder why I’m not Christian. :rolleyes:
Thank you, Polycarp, for being you, however. The world needs more yous.
Esprix
Pardon me, but if you believe all sin is equal in the eyes of God (a patently ridiculous assertion, given the existence of the 10 commandments), then how can you think you post didn’t equate being gay with being a bank robber?
I mean… sheesh.