Jesus is an idol. The Koran says that there is only one God and he never had a “son”. You’re diefying a human and that’s tremendously blasphemous.
I would like to know where WV_Woman met more than her fair share of gay people. If it was in a religious enviroment, I could see where a large number of them might bring up molestation as a reason if the church they wish to belong to holds the belief that it “causes” homosexuality. That way, it takes the supposed guilt from the “sin” of homosexuailty off of them, and lays in on the unsuspecting shoulders of their parents.
Really Poly, you know that I don’t think God made us for a reason? That’s interesting.
Well, God did make us all for a reason. To have fellowship with Him.
He did not make us who we are, our choices make us who we are. He tells us how he wants us to be and we can do it or not.
There is a big difference in kneeling down to my Bible and saying " oh Bible I worship you " and saying " these words are inspired by God and they should not be taken lightly."
If you put your faith in God ** Poly**, and you know that He inspired the writers, then you would follow and believe the Bible. After all, it was written for us to follow.
Poly, if you believe that the Bible was inspired by God, you would not think that there was error with it and I believe you do. If you do, that means God makes mistakes according to that belief, right?
No, He doesn’t.
I know, you are going to say that man made the mistakes when copying and translating. That’s why I am including this link.
You are right on one thing, gods don’t exist. Only God. You know, the God of Abraham.
That’s because you don’t understand.
NO, that was not an example of " some of my best friends are gay “. That is a perfect example for you since you don’t know the difference. I like these people, ( aka ** human beings **) they are fun to hang out with, kind, and considerate. I don’t look at them and say " oh my goodness, he/she is gay”. I look at them as people who are nice, and fun. See, that is possible. My parents didn’t teach me to be tolerant to gay people. My parents taught me to be nice to everyone. See where I am going with this. People are people no matter what they do. This doesn’t mean I have to agree with what they do. I hope that helped.
That’s because I don’t understand, huh? You know, you’re right. I don’t understand how a wise, omnipotent supreme being would have his followers hurt people who just want to love each other. Please explain to me how a god that commands such incredible injustice can be seen as being compassionate, wise, and good. Really. I don’t understand. Explain it to me. That’s your job, right? Converting sinners? So, go ahead. Convince me; why should I worship such a travesty of a god?
Oh, and as much as I enjoyed your reprise of “Some of my Best Friends are Gay” (subtitled, “Really, I Disapprove of How They Love, But They’re Fun To Hang Out With”), you failed to answer the question above it. Let me remind you:
You’ve been really good at handing down pronouncements about what people do and don’t understand. How about backing them up with a little explanation?
Uh, no one said you said this. You said that all but one gay man you have ever talked to had been molested. Others countered by saying that they know of very, very few gay men who have been molested. Seems like a direct riposte of your original statement, implying nothing more or less than what you were implying.
Certain groups face hardships far worse than other groups. You don’t need a show called “Be Nice to Straight White Rich Christian Males.” They don’t face much bigotry, prejudice. They’re not denied equal rights by their government, they’re not discriminated in vast numbers for job placement, you don’t here kids or brainless adults calling something stupid “so straight.”
That is a stupid analogy. A bank robber is a bank robber becaue of something he does. A gay person is gay because of something he is. If a person has the inclination to rob a bank, but never does so, he’s not a bank robber. But a gay person, even if they’re a virgin, is still gay, even if they never act on their natural orientation.
To get personal, as is somehwat common around here, I’m gay. I’ve never had sex with another male, but I have had sex with females. Even when I was with, for instance, Jill, I was gay. Even right now, doing nothing but typing, I’m gay. I am not gay because of anything I have done, but because it is who I am.
On the other hand, when I worked at Blockbuster Video, I came up with a way to rob the company blind and never get caught. Not for my own purposes, mind you, but for a story I was writing. In fact, my nefarious plot would be unusable nowadays (it would involve their old cash-equivelent gift certificates). However, I never robbed the store, so i am not a thief.
Or in your case, your opinion of what God says. Which means nothing to anyone but you.
Kirk
I’m surprised no one else has jumped on this, because this statement is an utter lie. Being gay gives one MASSIVE special insight on what being gay means. If you’re not gay, you don’t know what being gay is like.
I know more than you, Saen, what it means to be gay. Don’t claim to know from your position of ignorance what my life is actually like.
Kirk
I’m another non-molested gay person. And like others here have said, I know reams of gay people (probably an unfortunate choice of words there), and not a single one of them has ever been molested.
Now, I did know a bisexual who claimed she was molested. But she also claimed she could speak Korean, and couldn’t. She seemed to be a pathological liar.
Kirk
Gah! I knew I had forgotten something!
As always with this type of debate, the thread has turned into what could be called a target-rich environment. There’s so much prejudice, bigotry, and hypocrisy flying around, it’s hard to keep track of it all.
Seems you’ve taken care of it though. Nice work.
One bisexual who has never been molested checking in.
I really would like an explanation of how a God who would punish love the same way he would punish murder is worthy of worship.
“As a matter of fact I happen to think Cajun Man and Dr. Matrix are the cat’s meow. I have hung out with them at dopefests in NYC. I would have no objections to my daughter meeting them. I think she would love them. That doesn’t mean I would want to introduce their values to her. It is my responsibility to teach values to my child.”
—OK, this makes no sense to me. You adore Cajun Man and Dr. Matrix—as do most of us who know them. You think they are “the cat’s meow.” Yet there is something so, I dunno, what? evil? twisted? about their so-called “values” that you would have to warn your daughter against them? Their “values” of having loved each other and lived together for more than 20 years? Something is off-kilter here.
Oops. Sorry for the misunderstanding, and I don’t want you to think I was flaming you for a misperception of your views – what I “knew” that you disagreed with was my stance that a gay man (or woman) in an actively sexual covenanted relationship was likely fulfilling God’s plan for him (or her) – not the early part of that paragraph that we do indeed agree on.
However, I am at present unable to move mountains at my command, as Christ commanded us to be able to do, as are you. The key point there, of course, is “in accord with God’s will.” When I see statement after statement, with exceedingly rare exceptions, that the person bearing witness to his own internal makeup is unable to give up his orientation of being sexually attracted to others of his own sex, even with fervent prayer and the best will he can muster, then I must disagree with whether or not he has anything that can be reasonably described as a “choice.” And if one is incapable of doing something, be it commanding mountains to dive into the sea or changing one’s sexual orientation, then that inability is not condemnable sin.
I will grant that every person has the choice to indulge in or abstain from every sexual act, as well as every act of every other description, which he or she is capable of committing or refraining from. However, I am not at all certain that an act of love within a committed relationship is what Moses and Paul were condemning in their prohibitions of indulging in homosexual acts – context (always important in reading Scripture) suggests strongly to me that Moses’s target was the Canaanite/Amorite practice of using anal sex with men dedicated as priests of the false gods as a sort of ritual union with the Baal in question, and Paul’s target was the indulgence of lust with a person used as sex object. In neither case did the writer contemplate a loving union between two people, any more than the prohibition of fornication was not talking about sex acts within marriage.
Ignoring the fact that you are apparently accusing me of not putting my faith in God, which I would consider highly offensive, I’d suggest that your certainty as to God’s motives and the amount to which He chose to override the natural understanding of the writers who physically put words on parchment to produce the Scriptures are indicative of a viewpoint to which you are entitled but in which I do not share.
You and I believe in God, right? We have His Holy Spirit indwelling us, right? And we disagree here, right? That means that one or both of us is mistaken – not that God is in error. Likewise, the writers may well have been inspired by God to write as they did, and yet have allowed human error to creep into their manuscripts, due to their own misunderstandings of His will. I guarantee that that has been the case with preachers “proclaiming the word of God” since then, and I see no reason, other than superstition, to believe that He would override those writers of His Word in a way He has never done with those who preach His Word.
That, in a nutshell, bolstered by intelligent and faithful men’s investigations into the content and background of Scripture, is why I don’t hold to inerrancy. And it is why I can use it to shape my life, under the guidance of the Holy Spirit, without using it as a touchstone for Ultimate Revealed Truth as those who take it as inerrant and His last word on all things seem to do.
Nice link. Obviously, that is the writing of a man, who by the very arguments he uses may well be mistaken in what he writes. I tend to be much more inclined to take the Gospels, for example, as accurate than most of the scholars I refer to. That, however, does not mean that I believe in them as totally without error – they themselves contradict each other as to what Jesus said when, for example. Instead I believe in Him to Whom they witness.
No duh! Where you’re in error in drawing that conclusion is that Jesus is God the Son, incarnate as a man for our salvation. Putting God (one member of the Holy Trinity) in place of God is not idolatry.
You all completely ignored my post. Any type of Jesus worship is idoltry according to the Koran.
So since the Bible sets forth rules on slavery and how both a master and slave should act, are you putting forth that slavery is both justifiable and moral?
The Bible dictates that one shouldn’t castrate a male domestic animal. So even though society encourages neutering animals to control the pet population, it is wrong because the Bible says so?
How about killing witches? Stoning adulters?
Apparently some morality is decided on by popular vote. How do you get to judge what is right and wrong then? Because some preacher told you so and selectively choses biblical verses to prove it? You’ve dismissed the dietary laws, but there are plenty more laws which you never explained why you don’t have to follow.
Groups of supposedly Christian people used the law (which they are supposedly exempt from) to burn Joan of Arc at the stake for dressing like a man and kill hundreds for practicing what they perceived as witchcraft. How is what you are doing much different? Your words and morals are depriving them of life in one form or the other.
Like Eve said, I don’t understand. I’ve also met Dr. Matrix and Cajun Man–in fact, they stayed at my apartment when they visited DC for a Dopefest. They are swell guys and a wonderful testament to love and commitment. Are those bad values to teach your child. Jersey Diamond?
I may have come off as being a little short in my last post, allow me to explain myself.
If the only reason you can come up with to be opposed to something is that “God says it’s wrong”, when simple observation shows it to be harmless; when “all sins are equal in god’s eyes” and something observably harmless is punished the same as something that can be observed to hurt people- why would anyone consider that god worthy of their worship?
On a different note, some posters here don’t seem to get the difference between saying a point of view is invalid and actively trying to silence it. Those who opposed the Nick news special attempted to silence it, those who support anti-gay bigotry are free to say and do whatever they want. One thing that bothers me is that the type of christian who develops a weird persecution complex is invariably the type who gladly persecutes others.
Last I heard, Christians didn’t follow the Koran.
You must have missed a turn somewhere. This thread is for discussing gay lifestyles and fundamentalist Christianity.
Fundamentalist Islam is a couple of threads down, to your right.
“On a different note, some posters here don’t seem to get the difference between saying a point of view is invalid and actively trying to silence it. Those who opposed the Nick news special attempted to silence it, those who support anti-gay bigotry are free to say and do whatever they want. One thing that bothers me is that the type of christian who develops a weird persecution complex is invariably the type who gladly persecutes others.”
And yet I have a sneaking suspicion it was A-OK with you when GLADD (was it them?) did their damndest to keep Dr. Laura’s talk show off the tube.
Actually, I opposed the GLAAD boycott. I loathe Dr. Laura with every particle of my being, but I am absolutely against silencing opponents. On the other hand, I was not displeased to see that the free market gave that judgmental, compassionless hag the thumbs down.