Yeah, it wouldn’t be much of a joke, anyway, and it doesn’t make much sense for him to say it in either case.
I recall that he complains that he’s “going to lose both these men” if the ship gets another enemy hit. Probably true, but to say it to the room does not speak very well of his professionalism. And wasn’t Amanda in the OR at the time?
And, for that matter, what the heck was Amanda doing there in the first place?!
SHEEEEESH!
How’s this? It would be illogical for Spock to completely let it go. BUT he is, at least in theory, emotionally bullet-proof. He doesn’t HAVE to work out Stile’s attitude adjustment right then and there. Only we emo humans would feel a compelling “necessity” to do so. And the "necessity’ would really be ego, anger, … and fear. Without these, Spock is fine with brushing off Stile’s nonsense for the time being. The crisis was, after all, still going on. Vulcan children never forget to feed their pets, and Spock wouldn’t have any trouble remembering to have that sit-sown talk with little junior hot-head bigot to explain the facts of life to him, after the big battle, assuming they lived through it. (No one on board knows what an accommodating writing team they have on their side. Heh.)
But, BTW, that scene had always bothered me a bit, too.
And in “The Lights of Zether,” or whatever it’s called, McCoy openly discuses the medical status of a woman (forget her name) with Scotty, even though Scotty’s main connection with her was that he had a bit of a crush. I guess HIPPA didn’t make it to the future.
Lets face it, he may have been one hell of a research scientist, but Bones was a shitty doctor.
Its a stalemate of opinions, I guess. I can totally get what you say and agree, but I still think I am right. But then I am in the military and my perspective is skewed by that. Heck, I’ve had brushes with subordinates that I know I could deal with later, but when they dismiss my authority I cut it off right there. I think that is what Spock should have done.
Its a crisis situation. There is little time to let Stiles bigotry infect any of the other bridge crew. They may think “Hey, Stiles is RIGHT! Spock is a dick!” to themselves and if Spock makes no effort to stifle it, it only emboldens those feelings. “Spock didn’t even stand up for himself! Because he knew Stiles was on to him!”.
Spock may have his emotions under control but logically he should think the other human members do not and can be easily swayed into bearing torches and pitchforks. Our own RL history has examples of it. I say this not to bash Spock or Trek. Its a nit or a mistake or whatever. It can easily be argued that Spock doesn’t have complete control of his emotions and Stiles reaction caught him off guard.
Reactions going on, I just watched the episode of TNG “Devil’s Due” where a con woman convinces an entre planet that she is their version of the devil coming to collect on a contract they made centuries ago. Foregoing the fact that these people should have been able to determine that she was a fake with their own technology, (maybe they couldn’t, who knows…ONLY THE WRITERS!)…at the end when the con woman, “Ardra” is taken under arrest by the planet’s guards she smiles and jokingly tells Picard how he would have had more fun if he had lost.
Lady, you’re being arrested by the people that you tried to enslave and steal from. You used technology to cause earthquakes, you acted on their deepest religious fears, and you caused PLANET WIDE panic. Unless they have the most lenient law system in the galaxy they are going to kill you. Or at the very least lock you up in a really shitty place for the rest of your life. Its no time to be smiling. I know it would be merely catharsis for the viewer to see her beg Picard for Federation help or sanctuary, but that bugged me. Going even to a nice jail is still jail. Going to jail for trying to rip off an entire PLANET? I wouldn’t expect a nice jail.
Bones was a good doctor; I just think that particular show demonstrates the sexism present. After all, Bones and Kirk ask Scotty if Ms Romane is fit for duty. Hmmm, here’s thought, Cap’n: ask HER. (I can see asking the doctor, but Scotty?).
The show was fairly advanced for its time, but couldn’t shake some of the conventions of the day. Such is life for a TV show.
I am reading at present a book titled, “The Nitpicker’s Guide for Classic Trekkies” or some such. It makes this thread look like a most cursory glance at the show. I find I am impatient with the concrete operationalist thinking in the book. I realize it’s called “nitpicking”, but it’s the pickiest of nits. I’m talking about them mentioning that computer consoles or doors or other props from one planet are used on another etc. Which (for me) begs the question: do some fans of this show truly expect each new planet and civilization to have had completely different sets? Even if the show had had a respectable budget, that’s asking a bit much. It makes me wonder just how immersed some of these people are… :eek:
The Nitpickers guides have been out for years. I read them long ago and I think that Phil Farrand wrote them for fun. But not knowing him personally or having read them for years, I won’t say I’m right.
Its eay to nitpick TOS because of its limited production values and the time it was made. But I’d like to think that those of us who do only nitpick because we loved the show. There are far worse things to obsess about.
But you have a point. I’ve met people so immersed into Trek that they couldn’t enjoy a summer day in the park with friends w/o bringing up Tek. I’ve known a few that were so into their clubs they really thought they had to act like they were star fleet officers every single day. It can be scary.
I administrate a Groupwise post office.
No problem. 
Would you like to see just how fast he could put you in a hospital?
He could do it without putting down his mint julip, I’m sure.
“NAZISM: Gets Shit Done.” Hmm…guess I’d make a terrible ad man.
Because they’re essentially cute space rats. Who cares if they’re slaughtered? It’s funny because it messes with the Klingons.
Nah. Even Spock came to like the tribbles. Clearly Kirk and his crew didn’t regard them as space rats. Cyrano Jones has to collect them all on K-7, not just use a phaser and disintegrate them.
They also repeatedly refer to her as The Girl.
Spock: The girl reacted well.
That was a bit weird–and they talked about her in front of her face. But I am still in the camp of how amazing it was for a show of that time to show intelligent women doing their jobs well and with minimum fuss. I haven’t watched enough TNG to nitpick on it or know if it did the job better. I’d love to watch it, but so far my local library does not own the series.
Which is why I loved the interpretation of him in the new Star Trek movie: he didn’t really want to have to become a Starfleet doctor, risking his life out on the wild frontier; but he didn’t have much choice after his divorce left him homeless and broke. At least some of his bitterness might be from the thought that this was all due to his #&$^#% Ex.
Well, as I say, the scene had always bothered me too. I’m not inclined to completely dismiss it as bad writing, I just am fond of working out rationalizations for fiction when it seems at all feasible.
Yeah, that last part may be a way of looking at it. You can say that, logically, Spock could not afford **not to **handle it right on the spot. And, yet, at the same time, particularly in the early episodes we see a Spock that “just doesn’t get it” at least about some human emotions and behaviors. He thought it the best decision to arrange for the huge enemy ape-men to be stunned by ricocheting phaser fire, instead of killed. It did not occur to his ever-logical noggin that they might retreat in immediate fear and concern over being injured by the strange, new force, and then quickly come back angrier than ever. (As McCoy helpfully pointed out after the fact…)
BTW, it may have also convinced them that the new guys in the neighborhood had extremely bad aims. 
So Spock may have underestimated the collateral effect of Stiles’ rank * disrespect. He may have assumed, especially since no one ever echoed his bigotry and disregard for the command structure, that only Stiles himself could possibly be a concern.
{ETA: And, as you brought up, Spock doesn’t have 100% control, especially in unusually tense situations, so maybe he wouldn’t want to risk his mask falling off. As McCoy said in Menagerie, it would be extremely embarrassing for him.}
Just some thoughts.
As for being caught off-guard, wouldn’t that be ironic? All those exchanges with the good doctor, and not a single example of being at a loss for words. Then Stiles, with no particular verbal finesse, gets in a lucky punch.
“rank disrespect” - heh! - An unintentional pun, the best kind. 
Good points. If you consider how Spock acted in earlier episodes, it could be said that he was caught off guard. (of course you’d have to disregard that he served under Pike for some time, but then he was not first officer then.)
Spock is easily the most complex character in THB. It is a shame that TOS didn’t have at least one more season. We may have learne more about him, and Nimoy’s Spock shaped the Vulcan characters we’ve seen in newer trek shows.
I recall reading a bio of Bones once that did mention his divorce but not with a lot o details. I think the original McCoy probably a good doctor…I don’t think he’d be appointed CMO of the Enterprise otherwise…but I think he was a bitter man, that he had taken some lumps in life and he tried to hide it. Then he meets his new captain, James Kirk, who he kind of admires, kind of like a son if you take out the Captain/ CMO dynamic. Kirk is a dynamic individual that gives him a little bit of his faith in humanity back. Thus he spars with Spock, not because he dislikes Vulcans, but because his bitterness needs a release. Even though he likes and respects Spock. (but won’t openly admit it)
Thats just my opinion on it, and I’m sure there are many canon and non-canon items that will challenge or support it.
What bothers me now about the whole episode is that the position of Vulcan in TOS is totally different from what it was in later series. The impression you get is that Earth is the dominant and most advanced planet in the Federation (though there is odd evidence against such as the Romulans having the ability to leave Vulcan and go far, far away long enough ago so the Vulcans forgot what happened.) Then in First Contact we find that the Vulcans discovered us.
While Kirk is upset by Stiles’ bigotry, and when the episode first aired it was clearly an anti-bigotry message, perhaps we can understand Spock’s reaction as similar to a parent to a kid who is having a temper tantrum and calling you names. Insults are much easier to handle when you are coming from a positon of superiority.
Another thing that bothered me is when Decker responds to Spock saying that Vulcans never bluff with “I don’t suppose that they do.” This sounds like something he has never thought of before, but as a Commodore he has undoubtedly worked with Vulcans many times before. And while we’re at it, Spock has never heard of poker during The Corbomite Maneuver. I bet it would be hard to get through the Academy without at least being exposed to it.
If I may be allowed to fanwank this a bit. (I don’t like to do that, but here it goes…)
Other than McCoy’s offhand remark about Vulcan being conquered some time in the past, I don’t think TOS really established that Earth was more advanced. Mind you, I don’t like the idea that Earth is Home to Federation or anything. I would think that even with the founding members of the Federation agreeing to join together, they could find an uninhabited planet to base their operations out of.
I gotta disagree. Its funny, my unit just had their quarterly EO and harassment training today. Yes, quarterly. We do this EVERY quarter. After 20 years I could probably give the freaklin’ breifing. Anyway, I can buy Spock maybe being caught off guard by human emotions concerning bigotry, but not the thing you said about a kid and parents. He’s a military officer. His sobordinate has just shown disrespect to his rank and heritage. On the bridge. During a crisis. Other than plot requirements and the whole caught off guard thing, there is no excuse. I’d be interested to hear what any current or former military officers have to say about it. I don’t think they’d just blow it off.
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I’ll fanwank this one a bit…it is possible that Decker has had limited contact with Vulcans. Sure, he may no a few as a man of his rank and position, but in the time frame of TOS the only ship with a lot of Vulcans wasvthe Intrepid. Its possible that Decker may have just not have given bluffing a lot of thought when it comes to Vulcans. For all we know he could be more familiar with Andorians or Tellarites than Vulcans. Just because he’s a commodore doesn’t mean he knows all about Vulcans.
I’ve never EVER played Poker. I’ve heard of it and I don’t know the first thing about it except it has cards and chips and you can bluff. Spock may have heard of it as some “human card game” while at the academy and not bothered to think about it as any more than that. Chess, however, I believe he’d have been on the Academy Chess Team!
I thought he realized that Spock wasn’t bluffing, and had already planed his next move and was being condescending towards Spock in an effort to lull him into a false sense of security.
For what it’s worth, that’s been the common fan-canon for decades. His wife’s name was Jocelyn, and he even has a daughter named Joanna.
The space hippie episode, Way to Eden, was originally meant to be a McCoy episode featuring her.