Your mental image if funny and all, but far from the truth.
How many exits do you see in residential areas?
There are lots of reasons you might have to stop quickly. Children or animals in the road are pretty common in residential areas. A car could pull out in front of you. The car in front of you could stop quickly for no obvious reason.
To add to Yosemite’s cite about maintaining a safe following distance (since this point always seems to get lost in threads about tailgaters and them slowpoke drivers):
Whether or not you agree with this necessity of following safely, a rear-end crash because you were too close will almost ALWAYS result in a citation and fine, a bump upward in your insurance rates and points added to your driving record. It doesn’t matter if the person ahead of you was “going too slow”, reduced speed in what you think was an attempt to annoy you, or there was suddenly an animal in the road, or something fell off the pickup ahead of him and he had to brake quickly.
You hit him. You were too close to avoid the crash. You lose.
Don’t like it? Try to change the law. Good luck.
Actually, I’m in Brentwood, about five minutes away. I was just up there to get something done at the DMV - a surprisingly quick and easy process, I might add!
Anyway, we should do lunch or something… Maybe we should resurrect the STL Dopefest thread. But if nothing else, we could do lunch sometime.
(end St. Louis hijack)
I was in a similar situation a few years ago when a bridge on the highway I used to get to work was under construction. Rather than sit in traffic, I was one of a bunch of people who detoured through a residential district where the speed limit was 25 mph. Now, I like driving fast, especially on backroads, which meant I used to drive the bit which wasn’t in a residential district at about 35 mph until two things happened. First, a police car followed me down that entire stretch, which was a certain incentive to keep things legal. Second, as I came over a hill in the residential section, I saw a police car stopped in a side road, radar gun out, obviously looking for speeders. There was one there several times, actually. I’m not a rich person, and I like my little luxuries. In other words, I’ve got better things to spend $100 on than a speeding ticket! From that point on, I kept to the speed limit. Somehow, I don’t think the court would wave my fine just because the guy behind me wanted to go faster, although I do wish there’d been a cop on the side road the day I was tailgated by two teenage boys in what looked like a particularly large SUV who were flashing their lights and honking their horn at me (when you drive a Geo Metro convertible, some things do look particularly large). Unfortunately for them, I’m not easily intimidated, and I’m not in the habit of yielding to bullies. If I could have expained the situation to them, I would have. As it was, I drove in a way which I thought was appropriate for my safety and my solvency.
CJ
“Impeding Traffic” is a crime ( here in CA anyway) even if you are going the Speed limit. If you slow down, it is certainly a crime, and just as unsafe as tailgating- in fact maybe worse, since the tailgater is only endangering you, and when dudes start pulling out to pass you illegally- many drivers are endangered.
Yes, in general- when you are rear ended- it’s the other guys fault. Will that make the injuries hurt less? If there were kids in his or your car- and they are seriously injuered- will the fact that YOU are “legally right” make it any better for that kid? Will the time and aggravation having to get the damage fixed be recompensed because “it was the other guys fault”? And fianlly- if you slow down * for no good reason* - then the accident could be held to be partially your fault.
It’s stupid, it’s unsafe- and it leads to road-rage on both parties. And if the guy snaps- and runs you off the road, rams your car, or pulls along side and empties a gun in you- will being “legaly right” be much consolation to your widow & family?
There was a case of this here in San Jose. Woman pissed off a guy by slowing down- he drove along side, pulled her dog out of her car- and threw it into traffic, where it was killed. Yes- he was found and prosecuted- but her furry freind is still dead.
In CA- when there are so many cars piled up behind you (5?) you MUST pull over and let them pass- no matter how fast you are going. Of course- if you think you’re going 55, but you’re going 50, it makes things worse. The CHP has their spedomters calibrated regulary & often. Oh posters here that decide to 'enforce the speed limit" when was the last time you had your spedometer calibrated? :dubious: :rolleyes:
Don’t play cop. Don’t slow down. If he is crazy get out of the fucking way . Don’t end up “dead right”. :eek:
:smack: I must learn to proofread better, or learn my rights from my lefts. 
I turned right from a two lane road with a double yellow line onto two lane road in each direction into the right lane for slow pokes and Mr. Dodge Ram soared by me on the left. I didn’t mean to imply he passed illegally on the left, just that he was in a real hurry, and zoomed passed at first opportunity.
I didn’t slow down below the legal limit to thwart him, I just maintained the speed limit. I did, however, slow down on a different occasion while driving on a winding, woody back road. I was going 40 into a 35 zone when the driver behind me flashed his lights and rode my ass. I did slow down to 35 in that case. When the road widened to two lane, the drive sped by and gave me the finger.
:smack: :smack: :smack: On the right, damn it, On the right.
Doesn’t matter either way. As I said earlier, passing laws do not apply to surface streets.
Not in urban settings like you’re in, anyway.
Please explain to me how you can be impeding traffic driving the speed limit. As I said before, I am usually driving a bit over the speed limit if there is no one in front of me. I would love a cite for this.
First, I am going to have to call bullshit on the crime thing unless you can provide a cite. We aren’t talking about slowing down to five miles an hour or anything. Just enough to provide a bit more stopping time.
Second, I should ignore the guy riding my ass and put myself in harms way to protect the other drivers should the guy try to pass me? That is just crazy. Besides, if I slow down it not only makes me and the tailgater safer it also makes it safer for the other drivers when he does pass me.
The slowing down is to prevent being rear ended. It isn’t for no good reason. Like I said before, I could care less about being legally right. All I want is to get from one place to another with out getting hurt or hurting someone else.
Who is talking about letting cars pile up behind them?
Just out of curiosity, how does that law work anyway? Anytime you get a line of cars there is going to be car is going to be in the front. Does the front car have to keep pulling over and letting other cars pass? You will end up with a line of cars on the side of the road and only four cars driving. Makes no sense.
Honestly, when I am being tailgated it is one of two situations:
I am driving on a back road with no other cars around. I am driving about 5-9 miles over the speed limit. Someone races up behind me going much faster then that and rides my ass until we get some place he can pass me. By slowing down I make it safer for both of us should a deer jump out into the road or if there is a stalled car in the road around the next turn. It also makes it easier for him to pass me which is what he really wants to do anyway. Generally on these roads there is no place to pull over.
I am driving in a long line of cars. One car in the front of the pack is either driving the speed limit or a little lower. The car behind me thinks that they can make me speed up if they ride my ass. I can’t speed up because there is a car in front of me! The best response to that situation is also to slow down to give myself more stopping time. The last thing I want to do is end up in a five car pile up on the way to work.
When I say I slow down I mean five to ten miles an hour depending on how fast I was going to begin with and how many other cars are in front of me. In the first situation I would never slow down more then the speed limit unless there was another factor like hard rain or deer season. In the second situation I would only slow down enough to have more stopping time should the cars in front of me stop quickly.
It isn’t about being right. It isn’t about enforcing the law. It isn’t about a power trip. And it isn’t about screwing the guy behind me. You can throw those things up all you want but we both know it is just a straw man. It is about getting from point A to point B without getting killed or killing anyone.
And your warning about getting shot or having my dog killed is just stupid. Seriously, if someone is so crazy that they will shot someone for driving 55 in a 55 then who knows what will set them off. They might shoot me because they hate my bumper sticker or I stopped at a stop sign.
I can’t speak about residential roads, but the argument came up about going slow (even the speed limit) on highways before, and quite a few cites were tossed about, I even wrote a state highway trooper an email and asked him. I lost, it is illegal to impede traffic, the left lane is for fast traffic and if there is somebody wanting to go faster it is your legal duty to let him by. I suppose at the very least I could dreg up the thread for you. It was a bit of a train wreck…
As for the speedtrap on the OPs road: I am glad that here it is not legal for cops to use a private drive to enforce the law.
Well, of course highway driving is a whole other ball of wax. There is some place to go to get out of the way of the tailgater. That is the obvious and most safe solution if it is available. I have never had trouble with tailgaters in a highway setting.
I can only assume that DrDeth was talking about non-highway driving since that is what we were talking about. I hope he can provide some cite that says driving the speed limit on a residential road can be considered impeding traffic.
Here are a few cites:21654. (a) Notwithstanding the prima facie speed limits, any
vehicle proceeding upon a highway at a speed less than the normal
speed of traffic moving in the same direction at such time shall be
driven in the right-hand lane for traffic or as close as practicable
to the right-hand edge or curb, except when overtaking and passing
another vehicle proceeding in the same direction or when preparing
for a left turn at an intersection or into a private road or
driveway.
(b) If a vehicle is being driven at a speed less than the normal
speed of traffic moving in the same direction at such time, and is
not being driven in the right-hand lane for traffic or as close as
practicable to the right-hand edge or curb, it shall constitute prima
facie evidence that the driver is operating the vehicle in violation
of subdivision (a) of this section.
Note that it says no matter what the Speed limits are- if you are going less than the speed of traffic, you must drive in th eright hand lane. Thus, here, you can get a ticket for driving the Speed limit, (and eps slower than…) unless you are in the far right lane.
Next: Here is the residential road cite you asked for:
21656. On a two-lane highway where passing is unsafe because of
traffic in the opposite direction or other conditions, a slow-moving
vehicle, including a passenger vehicle, behind which five or more
vehicles are formed in line, shall turn off the roadway at the
nearest place designated as a turnout by signs erected by the
authority having jurisdiction over the highway, or wherever
sufficient area for a safe turnout exists, in order to permit the
vehicles following it to proceed. As used in this section a
slow-moving vehicle is one which is proceeding at a rate of speed
less than the normal flow of traffic at the particular time and
place.
Note again- a “slow moving vehicle” can be going the speed limit, but if it is going less than the “flow of traffic” it must yeild when “behind which five or more
vehicles are formed in line”.
Slowing down when there is someone behind you tailgating increases the chance of being rear-ended, it doesn’t make things safer. :dubious:
And you know full well that when you slow down to impede a fast moving driver it enrages them. That’s mainly why people do it. They *don’t * do it to be safe. They do it to piss off the “asshole” behind them. :dubious:
“Denial” is not a river in Africa here. 
Well, the turning into the correct lanes still matters. And while the law says that you can use both lanes on surface street, common sense and safety dictates pulling into the right lane to let the Dodge dude pass on the left. After all, it was no mystery that he was going to pass, only where. Left is safer.
Looks like you did the right thing on all account, Pyrrhonist. Good on you. Other people in this thread get passive aggressive. You kept your temper and drove safely. Don’t lose sleep over anything the asshole following you did.
Oh, in case you think “highway” in the second cite means just that; a multi-lane “highway”:
360. “Highway” is a way or place of whatever nature, publicly
maintained and open to the use of the public for purposes of
vehicular travel. Highway includes street.
I do it primarily to let the tailgater know that tailgating me isn’t going to make me go faster, and with the hope that that will cause him to back off. If it pisses him off, it’s just an added bonus.
Lets try to clear up (and maybe even agree!) what a “safe following distance”
I’ll tell you right now, the 2 or 3 second rule on a highway is a fairy tale. No one drives 200-300 feet a part from the next car at 65 mph (~93 fps) unless you like being cut off and/or drive 100% in the right lane. In moving traffic, anyone opening up 300 feet is going to fuck up traffic as people “butt in” the gap causing you to open even MORE space. People who drive like this usually get most of the dangerous road ragers out there to react (including me sometimes).
The reason why our highways (and all roads) work is because 95% of people make it work. Like Danalan said, it’s a dance.
If you’ve ever seen moderate high speed traffic you’ll see everyone tail gating but giving at least 30-40 feet of space. That’s a good 1/2 second of space. I find many drivers are able to cope with 1/2 second to react and unless a spectacular instance occurs (child running onto the highway etc) 99% of all drivers do not have a problem driving this way.
GoingToCalifornia, how does 2 accidents at a stop sign relate to this discusion? They weren’t tailgating, they were probably just drunk idiots.
Oh, your post does indicate something’s wrong with your (past) driving. I don’t know anyone who’s had 3 non-fault accidents like that. But you said you were 16/17 so that makes sense.
You mentioned you “slammed” on your brakes in your tailgating accident. From my experience as a new driver (and teaching my sister and GF how to drive in my car) at 16/17 you probably over reacted which may explain why you haven’t been in any recent accidents. This does not really relate to tailgating, only driver ability. I’m glad you mentioned all your accidents happened when you were young (that I can understand). A 100 feet following distance (if this was a ~35 mph road) should equate to a fairly normal stop, no panic required.
yosemite, I assume when you got nailed from behind you were approaching a green light? I’ve been fooled by drivers before about this. The light turns yellow, you think you can make it but the driver in front slams on their brakes. Yes, it’s still the tailgater’s fault but in this case there is an arguement that the first driver did not properly approach the light and caused an unsafe situation. I’ve been tricked into this once (stupid ass driver broke hard 100 feet from the light on a fucking green light).
And yes, one accident was tailgate related. First person panic stops because they think they saw something on the road (it was black tar) and causes a 3 car pile up. I hope they got a ticket. The last one was a special instance where traffic got super heavy and stopped. Driver behind me didn’t notice in time (it was night) so came straight at me at 100 km/h but because the road curved slightly, slid into the next car beside me. Close call.
Oh, and I wanted to add, you CAN be charged if you get rear ended! There have been a few instances were people have STOPPED IN THE LANE of a highway and getting hit (by trucks usually). You CANNOT stop like that on the highway.
The last instance (where I think 2 kids died) some idiot stopped on the highway because of geese! Yes, you should avoid hitting geese (they’re pretty damn big) but you should do so on the shoulder…with your 4 ways on. This person got nailed because the human eye has some trouble determining the speed of an object directly in front of them (and distance).
You don’t do it to piss them off, but if it pisses them off, it’s a “bonus”.
That can’t have made sense even to you. :rolleyes:
If your interpretation is correct, it is illegal to inhibit five or more drivers from speeding, or, at least, that’s how I’m interpreting it. —Maybe because driving at the speed limit would prevent cops from catching speeders, thus denying the state some much needed revenue.
I have to question whither a cop could prove that driving at the speed limit was impeding the “normal” flow of traffic, even with a few dozen cars following. By default, I assume, the speed limit is the normal flow of traffic, unless weather conditions are poor, and then it is less. Unless there are case histories of such incidents being ticketed and upheld in court, I would think such a law would only apply to someone going less than the posted speed.
However, you guys did vote in Arnold as Governor, so I shouldn’t be much surprised by anything that happens there. Remind me not to drive in California.