No black box on the space shuttle,

Just telemetry, So the shuttle’s instruments are beamed down to NASA real time. But during reentry the shuttle goes through a blackout where ionized air prevents communication. So am I safe to assume that there is no record as to what happened up to the time that the internal instruments stopped working.

I’ve heard some talk about getting some sensor info before blackout (blown tire, extreame heat, loss of sensors), but the shuttle either went into blackout or it was assumed it went into blackout before the ship came apart.

Without such records, how are we going to learn to prevent this happining on the next flight?

Actually, the shuttle computers do record and store telemetry information from the flight. After the Challenger launch explosion NASA was able to recover several intact computer memories and download data from them. It’s unlikely that any survived in this case, however, as they’re not designed to survive a Mach 18 breakup. I don’t think a commerical jet’s black box will survive that either.

Columbia had already been through the blackout period in this case, and came out of blackout before the sensors started detecting trouble. As far as I know, NASA was recieving good telemetry up until about the moment when the shuttle broke apart.

I disagree. If there are black boxes, they have a pretty good chance to survive. There have already been rercognizeable human remains found. WHETHER there are black boxes, however, I couldn’t say.

But I believe AndrewL is right. The shuttle had already gone through blackout.

There are no blackboxes on the shuttle. There is no need. All flight data is transmitted in real time, constantly from the shuttle to the ground. Considerably more data than any aircraft’s FDR records. Columbia did not stop transmitting this data until the moment it disintergrated, therefore an ‘onboard’ data recorder would be of little value.

All data is recorded, but not in a centralized reinforced place, so it’s unlikely it survived a Mach-18 3000+ degree breakup.

Also, the shuttle rarely goes through blackout anymore. It is in contact with mission control for most if not all of the descent (although it’s not a cause for alarm when a temporary LOS does occur). IIRC, this is accomplished with a rear-facing K-band antenna that transmits data back away from the shuttle, out the back end of the plasma “shield”, where it is relayed off a TDRS (Tracking and Data Relay Satellite) back to mission control. This is somewhat dependent, however, on the proper positioning of a TDRS “behind” the shuttle. Whether they had this capability on STS-107, I don’t know…

I agree with hobbes730.

Based on Columbia’s 1982 operator’s manual (at least years ago was publicly available), there is a communications blackout starting at 25 minutes before landing (at about 312,000 feet, 16,700 mph). The blackout is caused by ionized particles enveloping the Orbiter. This blackout continues until 12 minutes before landing (about 180,000 feet at 8,300 mph). The Columbia was in the middle of this area (207,000 feet at 13,000 mph or there-about).

IIRC something like 10(?) years ago, NASA added the necessary equipment and TDRS satellite that hobbes730 talked about to attempt to maintain communications through that typical blackout period. They had this capability on the STS-107, otherwise, they’d have no data or voice communications during that period.

So the massive amount of data from the shuttle (FAR more data and sensors than any common black box) is saved on the ground, but the catch is that it relies on communications to exist.