When conservatives tell progressives that they’re liberal soy-boy cucks, should I be taking that to heart? Asking for a friend.
Hey, that’s my post! To also be clear, only one of those things is my own personal view - I don’t care what the President says on Twitter. I find it humorous.
If you want to find common ground on “Caring what the President says on Twitter”, convince me that I should care. Of course, I don’t care what ANYBODY says on Twitter, so it’s not like I’m singling him out.
In the spirit of the OP, here are 3 things I would like to think everyone could agree on, but I no longer feel that’s the case.
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Everyone in a society bears some responsibility for the well-being of others. When I was in college I used to argue with liberals that, you know, of course we should feed the hungry and house the homeless, we just needed to do it with private, voluntary, efficient charities instead of public, mandatory, wasteful government programs. This is what I was taught growing up in a Reagan household, and my parents gave very generously to local charities. Now I’m told by some conservatives that any handouts, regardless of the source, breed dependence and are actually counter-productive, and the best thing we can do for the less fortunate is nothing.
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America is an idea, not a group of people or culture. The American Dream is that anyone can come to this country and, thanks to the strength of our constitution, become anything they want to be. That might be a lie in reality but it underscores a powerful idea, that a great country can arise from a system and not be based, as so many countries are, on a common cultural heritage. And yet in the thread linked to in the OP we see a conservative poster worried that a large influx of people from a different culture would fundamentally change America. That to me shows a lack of faith in the American experiment, and a lack of understanding of what makes America what it is – it’s not us, the Americans, it’s the constitution and the ideals it espouses about self-governance and equality.
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Diversity is strength. I’m reminded of the Manhattan project, a time when Americans from every walk of life imaginable came together overcome a great challenge. Immigrants, eggheads, lugheads, etc. Building the A-bomb took “the right stuff” of rugged individualism, but also the nerdy academics of liberal East coast/European scientists. Then Sarah Palin came along and told us that there was a real America and a fake America, and real America doesn’t seem to include the diversity of Americas important cities.
The left are the left. This is like saying that you’ve always found Mr. Rogers to be a cranky asshole.
If you feel like you’re being put down by your average lefty, in a conversation, I’d opt to go with massive insecurity not that they’re actually being mean to you.
And, no, I’m not optimistic that I’ll convince lefties to stop acting like lefties. That’s how they got where they are.
I’m not sure what question you thought this reply was answering. Let’s try again.
You said
How is “telling them” things like that working out as a strategy to get rid of the present POTUS? Remember, we are not talking about me (though I am fascinating) or you. We are talking about saying things like you just said to real people as a political strategy.
It’s not that the don’t care attitude is driving their decisions. Its that the things that some people think that the things that are important to them should also be important to everyone else and a lot of people don’t really give a shit about the things that keep you up at night.
They have reasons for liking Trump:
(i) he is nominating conservative judges,
(ii) he is engaging China on trade (which poor whites see as helping them),
(iii) he is clamping down on immigration (which poor whites see as helping them),
(iv) he is telling the PC police to go suck eggs (which poor whites see as sticking up for them),
(v) he is isolationist,
(vi) he is pissing off liberals.
And none of the reasons liberals think you should hate Trump are very convincing to them.
These are generally either conservatives or poor whites. As long as you nominate conservative judges, conservatives will vote for you. Trump has been pandering mostly to poor whites. AFAICT poor whites don’t see the racism at least not compared to the racism they have seen leveled against them in recent decades.
You can only dump on poor white people as a group for so long before they start to feel like maybe you don’t care about them.
So you object to the entire platform? That’s fair enough. I’m not a fan of Twitter either. I find it largely superficial and often stupid. Of course there are pithy, even insightful comments made from time to time. But on the whole, my quality of life and how my ideas are informed would not change if Twitter was taken down tomorrow. I guess we found common ground on this issue. Which is encouraging.
Now, let me ask you this:
Would you care if he said those things as part of a presser, a fireside chat, an open letter to the nation? What communication venue would make you care (take seriously) the contents of his daily messages?
My opinion – from the way other ethnic/sectarian conflicts have played out in other parts of the world, the fundamental issue here is that when one group seeks to maintain a near-monopoly on power, things get really messed up and start falling apart in many ways.
So for example: people talk about economic inequality as a reason many people turned to Trump. But when Dems talk about economic inequality, how the wealthy are screwing the working class in so many ways, that doesn’t really resonate so much. I think “economic inequality” as used by Trump supporters really has more to do with “me and my neighbors who I see as having a lot in common with me are having a harder time, and it’s those ‘other people’ who are screwing us out of our livelihoods” as opposed to this being a straight economic or racial issue.
Now that I’m thinking about it, it reminds me of Jerry Springer in which two trashy girlfriends are fighting each other over some jackass boy who is cheating on both of them. The boy in this case is the wealthy, but the girls would rather find another scapegoat than the one who is actually responsible for their torment.
If they don’t give a shit about climate change, why take an opposing position at all? I don’t understand this mindset.
But are those things* really *good for them?
Progressives want to give poor whites healthcare, affordable education, career training for th 21st century. But all they want is conservative judges?
This President? Nothing. He constantly spouts lies, nonsense, and things that will never happen. I’m not sure why anyone listens to anything he says.
If we were talking about someone like Alex Jones, I’d be inclined to agree with you. Just don’t tune into his program and go on with your life. But POTUS is arguably the most powerful single individual on the planet in our time. Is it reasonable to expect people to just ignore him? Does it not behoove people to call him out on his pathological lies and dangerous actions? I mean isn’t that what speaking to power is all about? It seems insufficient to simply dismiss him as some inconsequential dotard, especially since his words and actions have actual consequences, and resonate with ~63M voters.
But he’s the president and when he says something he has men with guns who will listen to him and make other people fall in line to do what he says. That doesn’t worry you?
I’d like to think that at least some of those accusations are not without merit, and that you’ll agree that there is ample evidence that this administration (Trump specifically) stands fairly accused. So, to say, “Don’t care”, at minimum, demonstrates complicity.
That raises a good point. There are countless threads on the boards where liberals ask conservatives to explain why they support Trump and his policies. Mine is just another meager attempt. What I don’t recall is even a single thread where conservatives show a genuine interest in why liberals oppose Trump. Perhaps someone will correct me. Now, It may be that liberals wear their objections to Trump on their sleeves and a Trump supporter hardly need ask. Or maybe it’s a case of, “Don’t care”, as in, Trump supporters and republicans who support Trump genuinely have no interest in wanting to understand why libs/progressives/dems find Trump, and by association Trump allies, deplorable. I mean, maybe it’s me, but I want to know why conservatives deplore my liberals views.
QED?
There was one so completely bought into Trump’s ideology that he took it upon himself to mail bombs to various democrats and vocal media critics. Now sure, it’s easy to dismiss him as an anti-social loon. But he didn’t imagine hearing Trump call democrats and media “enemies of the people”, over and over again. He acted in accordance with the Trump doctrine. As have others who committed mass shootings inspired, at least in part, by Trump’s words.
I was actually thinking about his official powers and the people in the military, Borer Patrol, CIA, etc. who follow his orders because it’s their constitutional duty to do so.
Trump did NOT do it. You, and the entire political process has done it. The views that people are too stupid, too vulnerable, too everything to think for themselves has left us with a political process that ignores 50-90% of the populace in order to do the things THEY think are good. And then the populace sees things that bring those on high horses back down to earth, corruption, scandals etc and blame the entire system.
Then you had a guy promising to be unlike the politicians that are prevalent. To help drain the swamp (which has yet to happen) But It worked.
I suspected that’s what you meant. I’d like to think that the overwhelming majority would not follow such illegal or immoral orders. Although, the detentions and child separations at the border serve to undermine that confidence.
Despite what people think, “Tweets” are not orders. Campaign speeches are not orders. Press conferences are not orders.
Nobody has to do a damn thing the President said via Twitter.
What has worked? Be specific. In what way have the lives of Trump supporters markedly improved since he took office?
I don’t think anyone is blaming the problems with Trump’s administration on Twitter.