I did a search and didn’t come up with anything in the last few months.
The Dream Act, for those who don’t know, is legislation aimed at allowing people who came to the US illegally as minors to have a path toward citizenship.
Key provisions are:
You have to have come here under the age of 16
You have to have been here 5 years or more
You have to pass a security check and not have a criminal record
You have to have a HS degree or GED
You have to attend at least 2 years of college or military
There are a few more, but that’s a good summary.
So, is this good legislation?
My own thoughts are that I’m concerned this is another amnesty deal. We’re told that this is a one shot deal, and that it will be good for the country. But if it’s good for the country now, it will be good for the country every year going forward, too. I’m also bothered by the age. We try 14 and 15 year olds as adults with some regularity, so I’m not that thrilled about someone coming here illegally at age 15 and then allowed to become a citizen.
OTOH, we have to deal with the reality. Many of these kids have lived here most of their lives, are fluent in English, are fully assymilated, and will be a good addition to our society. Punishing them for something their parents made them do isn’t right.
So, I would agree that we should do this, but we should lower the age to something more like 12, and create some sort of super green card for them that would give them legal residence for something like 10 years, revocable if they are convicted of a serious crime. Recognize that we have to deal with the situation, but raise the bar, and make it damn hard to qualify.
IIRC, that’s usually reserved for serious crimes involving violence. Juveniles generally still get a break for more minor things. I’d say crossing an arbitrary geographical line in order to get a better life for oneself doesn’t fall into the same category as rape and murder. YMMV.
Would you approve of the bill if the age was lowered? I think it’s pretty hard to argue that someone who came here illegally at the age of 2 should be held responsible for that.
OK, although there is nothing “arbitrary” about the border. I’m still bothered by the age limit. We expect kids to know the difference between right and wrong once they reach a certain age, and be held accountable for their actions. That age is less than 15. We don’t need to be able to try them as adults to try them.
I said in the OP that I was OK if we lowered the age to around 12. So, yes.
Well it’s a dependency issue. 15 year old’s family sneaks across the border. If their choice is breaking another country’s laws or being left to fend for themselves, which do you suggest?
Now there’s the argument that other family could take care of them, but that might not be a realistic option. Ultimately you don’t punish children for the crimes of their parents.
I suggest we send them back, with their parents. If parents encourage their kids to shoplift, we don’t let them keep the goods just because they are minors.
Besides, I don’t consider it “punishment” to send someone back to the country they grew up in.
Leaving aside the age issue, what’s wrong with doing this every year? I’m assuming you think its an incentive for people come to this country illegally so their children can live exemplary lives and become US citizens. But I don’t see anything that would stop them from coming anyway.
We could get rid of the illegality problem by offering extended green cards of the type you mention to parents who want to do that. Then after 5 years apply the dream act only to people who came in with that deal. They will be coming anyway, but at least some will be documented this way.
And why the extended green cards for the kids? Wouldn’t we want citizens like this?
It may not be punishment, but it’s not because it isn’t a terribly harsh consequence for people who’ve made a life for themselves in this country.
To oppose this you have to be willing to harm real people to defend the principle of our current immigration laws, which are a disaster. If we’re going to strictly enforce laws and say no amnesty, let’s make the laws rational first.
Someone comes here at 15, and then 3 years later they are an adult. They haven’t “made a life” here, and as an adult they can return to their native country.
I don’t consider it “harm” to people to have them return to the country they grew up in. If they were really brought here as kids, I’m OK with allowing them to stay. I just don’t like the age limit in this bill.
(1) You may not like the age limit, but would you oppose the bill over it? The Act covers a whole lot of other people, including those who came here when they were 3 and are now 29.
(2) It is harm. Especially for people who came here at 15 and are now much older. It sucks to be forcibly moved anywhere, but especially somewhere with a lower standard of living. You may think it is justifiable harm, but it’s definitely harm.
So, I was watching this Cheech Marin movie, Born in East L.A.. Early on, his mom reminds him that the supposed to pick up his cousin at the border crossing, and he complains “Awww, Mama, you know my Spanish isn’t any good!”
That struck me. And then what struck me was that it struck me. That I had assumed without any thought that, well, of course he spoke Spanish, he’s a …oh. Hmmm.
So, to focus on the human issue. If someone has lived in America as an American since they were two, how cruel would it be to deport them to a “home country” they are ill-equipped to survive in? What kind of welcome might they expect?
As far as military service to ensure citizenship, hell, yes! Just spitballin’ here, but maybe enlistment covers you, hazardous duty pay covers you and your immediate family, combat duty adds a couple of cousins. But if you ever actually take a bullet for your country, you can bring in the whole kit and kaboodle, kith, kin, cattle and pets.
And this is a problem? It’s good for this country for people to be coming here. It’s good for those people to be coming here. Immigration is a win-win situation. Why is it a bad thing to occasionally stop pretending otherwise?
I grew up with a lot of illegal immigrants. I strongly support this bill.
In practical terms, it doesn’t change much. People who come here as minors are generally going to stay, no matter what. Few people go through American high school, graduate, and then decide to high-tail it back to the country that their family left years ago.
What this does is remove a bit of the fear and instability in their lives, turning them into productive citizens. It gives them a path to education and legit employment, and takes them one step closer to being productive members of society.
Let’s take a 21 year old woman whose parents came her when she was fourteen. Which of these scenarios is better for America? Maria is…
A: Working under-the-table washing dishes in a restaurant, living in a friend’s spare bedroom, barely able to support her kids, scared to show up to public events (like back to school night) and constantly haunted by the fact that she could, at any time, have her entire life shook upside and be sent back with just her kids to a country she barely remembers.
B: Finishing a practical A.A. degree and working as a home health aid, considering buying a fixer-upper house, taking an active role in her children’s education, joining neighborhood groups and really putting down roots in her community.
These are the real options. “She should have stayed in Mexico” or “She should go back to Mexico now” are not going to happen. We make the best out of what we have.
As a practical measure, I would expect the Democrats, who are the major supporters of this bill, to cave in and agree to changes, so that doesn’t bother me. They have demonstrated that they have no stomach for confrontation on controversial issues.
It’s not “harm” to require someone who is not a citizen here and who has no legal right to be here to return to the country where they are legal citizens. If it is “harm”, then it’s “harm” to not allow any random person to come into the US to escape the lower standard of living in the country where they live.
Why don’t we have more legal immigration, and reduce the size of the problem that we aren’t addressing? The Dream Act isn’t going to have an effect on illegal immigration whether it passes or not.
It seemed to cause Ramón Gonzales some harm. He came to the United States when he was very young and was deported as an adult. He had a hard time adjusting to life in Mexico because he had been raised in the United States (his brother was born in the U.S. and was therefore a citizen). He did not speak proper Spanish, he’s miserable because he can’t get decent American food in Mexico, he was separated from the social network (friends, family, etc.) that he was a part of, he did not fit in with Mexicans, and when you add that his standard of living suddenly went down I think harm is the correct word for it.
You can read about it in Between Two Worlds: The Life of an American-Mexican as told to John J. Poggie, Jr. The University of Arizona Press, 1973.