I think **Panda ** said:
“Chinese places that only have chopsticks do so only because they want you to eat less, nothing more.”
and meaning
‘only chopsticks’ = inefficient eating = serve a small serving = profit
This phrase “Chinese places that only have chopsticks do so only because they want you to eat less, nothing more.” was, I believe, read by Mace as
‘only chopsticks’= inefficient eating = people order less dishes (= less profit, oops). This is contrary to the logic and goals of the restaurant business, which is why he said:
"Yeah, because everyone knows that Chinese restaurant owners don’t want to make much money. " with the "confused’ emoticon, 'cause he’s like, confused, because making money would seem to be the point of having a business. I don’t think there was any more subtext or greater meaning than that.
I have never been denied a fork in a Chinese restaurant when I asked for it, but I’ve occasionally had some friction trying to obtain a knife.
I do not use a knife merely for cutting; I eat two-handed, using the knife to move food onto the fork. (Oddly enough to my way of thinking, this is not universal?)
Someone told me that in some Asian cultures a “knife” is considered to be “a weapon” and not appropriate to have at the dinner table, dunno if that’s an urban legend or not. (how anyone could consider a table knife a weapon, or more of one than a chopstick, is beyond me, though)
Ok, there have been plenty of threads about tipping on the SMDB over the years, and I see no reason to start another one here. But since someone asked:
Unless the waiter was directly, severely insulting to the diner, I do not think stiffing the tip completely was at all warranted. Withholding the tip because the waiter was trying to uphold the restaurant’s policies (or maybe there was some other legit reason other utensils were not available, the asshole OP didn’t try to find out why) is not a good reason to withhold the tip.
Look, waitstaff usually must declare a minimum of the value of the meal they serve to the IRS as tips, regardless of how much of a tip they actually get. In my opinion, therefore you are a total asshole to withhold the tip unless there’s a very, very good reason to fuck with the waitstaff’s livelihood. You may have lowered the person’s wages below minimum wage, depending on how the restaurant handles tip declarations. Luckily most people aren’t total jerks, and so it usually evens out.
In any other service profession (say, a rude clerk at a grocery store), you simply don’t go back if you’re upset enough. You can’t lower the clerk’s wages or something like that.
When you stiff a waiter, you’re doing exactly that.
Only raging assholes stiff the tip, in my opinion. The OP’s petulant demands and tip denial put him well into asshole land. Best solution would be to complain to the management of the restaurant, not fuck over the poor waiter’s livelihood, and never go back, like you would at a store. Hell, even dropping the tip to 10% is acceptable if you’re pissed. At least at that point you’re still not forcing to the waiter to possibly pay tax on money they didn’t actually earn (depending on how the restaurant handles such things).
Don’t sweat it my friend. As long as the chow ends up in your stomach your good to go. Some things in this life aren’t worth learning especially if you’ve made it this far without them. You should have asked for a finger bowl and macked it down the good old fashioned way. I’m sure even a smart ass waiter could a little water in a bowl.
In some places, e.g. France, it’s impossible NOT to tip b/c they build it in @ 15%. If you leave money on the table, you’re tipping over and above. Don’t know the situation in the OP’s locale.
Re: Asians/knife=weapon. I thought the idea was that if you cut everything into bite-sized pieces in the kitchen, it will cook faster (fuel being an issue that brought about the evolution of the efficient wok, IIRC). Also, your guests don’t have to do it and therefore don’t need knives. Chopsticks are easy to make, right? Just use some of the plentiful bamboo they have in those locations. Easy/inexpensive in ancient China to produce knives for all? Maybe not.
True, I have no idea how this works in England. Perhaps stiffing the tip is much less punishing to the wait staff there than it is in the U.S.
Obviously the best solution is when the tip is automatically included in the price of the meal, and isn’t variable or left to the whimsy of assholes. But that is not the situation in many countries.
Asswipe. It appears you didn’t even read your own link.
Sorry, but many restaurants in the U.S. handle it in such a way that they always report a minimum of 8% of the sale to the IRS regardless of what was actually earned. Unless you interview the management, you don’t know whether they are lazy or not, or knowledgeable in tax law or not. Most in my experience always report the 8% minimum.
Yes, the waiter is liable for exactly what tips they made in the eyes of the IRS.
But, that’s not what you said, now is it? And, per my cite, restaurants which always declare 8% regardless of earned tips may be underreporting and therefor in violation if IRS rules. So, how does your being wrong make me an asswipe, huh?
You’re an asswipe for the uncalled-for snarky remark up there.
Actually, it is what I said. I said, “usually must” report (i.e. because of the employer’s policies.) Ok, to be more accurate, I should say, the employer usually reports 8% minimum. (I did also say, “depending on how the restaurant handles tip declarations.”) Regardless, it happens all the time.
And, no, I’m not assuming it works exactly like this in the U.K.
It was perfectly called-for and accurate. You were wrong; you’re still wrong. Pretending that the fact that many restaurants violate the law makes you right doesn’t actually make you right.
No, what you said is that employees usually must report 8% of the meals’ value to the IRS. This is the part which is wrong. Tipped service personnel must report tips earned over the minimum amount when they file, regardless of what the employer has declared. This being the case, employers who only declare 8% are effectively screwing their employees since they either have to break the law by declaring less than they should or they get to pay more taxes.
Understood, and nor am I, since I have no idea how it works there, either.
"The 8% figure only comes into play when an employer determines that certain employees are not declaring tips of at least 8% of total sales. In that case, the employer is required by law to allocate tips to those employees who have declared less than 8%, in an amount that will bring them up to 8%.
The employees are not taxed on the allocated portion of their tips, only the amount they declared in the first place. However, employees who have tips allocated to them may be asked by the IRS about the allocation."
IANALL, but that sounds like the “allocation” to bring the rate up to 8% is not taxed.
Which is still a pretty stupid idea. Unless you’re completely incompetent with them, chopsticks are every bit as efficient as a knife and fork. Who the hell is going to Asian restaurants, and leaving still hungry because they couldn’t get enough food off the plate and into their mouths?
Alright, no need to argue with someone who thinks being in the Pit gives them the right to be a jerk.
Point is, some waiters do get screwed extra when they’re stiffed on tips, because many restaurants declare the 8% minimum regardless. Call it laziness. Call it assuming there’s cash tips being stashed. Call it being confused about the law. Either way, it’s possible to force a waiter into tax liability for money they haven’t earned when you stiff them.
I’m out of here. I feel no need to talk to someone who can’t be civil and makes gratuitous insults just because it’s the Pit. Also this board doesn’t need another tipping debate.
Fair enough. But I must point out that I was not trying primarily to talk about IRS tax law, only about what restaurants do (as represented when I said “how restaurants handle tip declarations.”)
"confused’ emoticon, 'cause he’s like, confused, because making money would seem to be the point of having a business. I don’t think there was any more subtext or greater meaning than that.
