You, too. Please don’t stiff any waiters.
Knorf, how can you admonish Chowder when you admit you don’t understand how the taxes work in the UK nor the local customs? For all you know he was doing exactly what is required of him.
You wrote out some long screed pretending that the OP was about some place in the US then had to backtrack: “Well the principle is the same!”
No it’s not. A lot of times in Europe, people in the service industry will make decent wages regardless of tips. I made roughly 20 dollars an hour working as a barman. So your rant is not relevant to the situation at all. It makes sense in the context of tipping in the US, but it has been brought up TWICE already that the OP was referring to something that happened in the UK.
I agree with your opinion, except in this case, where I think the option to not leave a tip is less of a travesty as it is in the US
Dammit, I want to be done with this. Sigh
I agree it may be less of a travesty as far as tax law goes in the UK than the US, but I don’t know for sure. As I already said.
Regardless of tax law, I think harming someone’s livelihood because of a grievance, excepting really extreme circumstances, is assholish. The OP didn’t try to find out why there was no knife and fork. He also didn’t try to explain to the waiter that he was inept in the use of chopsticks, and be nice about it. He was petulant and demanding (at least it seems so in his OP.) As per his OP, he simply berated the waiter and used profanity until he got his way. Then he stiffed the tip. Regardless of UK tax law, that’s asshole behavior in my opinion. Even in the UK, base wages are based on an assumption of the waiter receiving tips (it’s not like Germany, for example, where tips are already included in the price of a meal.) That much I know. In the OP, the waiter was apparently financially punished because he tried to follow his employer’s wishes.
So, how come when I say you’re pretending something it’s a grievous and gratuitous insult, but when someone else says it, you don’t even blink?
Because you had already been insulting. Multiple insults became gratuitous. I apologize for calling you an asswipe. I regret reacting that way; it was an overreaction.
So, trying to be less touchy this time. Hope that’s ok.
I don’t think I ever “pretended” that the OP was in the U.S. I know the OP is in Manchester, and I didn’t forget that. I was not responding only to him, but to other people (in the U.S.) who defended the OP. The quote I responded to was from Justin_Bailey, hence my statement “since someone asked.”
I might add, I think the waiter was treated like shit, and not the other way around.
I should have clarified the whole UK vs. US thing, but I didn’t expect people to jump all over me for not making that crystal clear. Hah! Should have known better.
And I still think the principle is the same, regardless of tax law.
What the fuck? Pub 531 says otherwise. Allocated tips are essentially the tips that the IRS feels you should have owed, and are usually taxable. I believe it is 8% of the restaurant’s sales divided amongst the employees, and not 8% of your individual contribution. You can avoid the tax by justifying why it was less than 8% by keeping a daily tip record. The employer can also lower their rate to as low as 2%, but they need permission from the IRS ahead of time.
The waiter was being a douchebag, I’d say that’s sufficent “insult” to deny him his tip.
And while we’re at it. Fuck any server who thinks they’re entitled to a tip. You’re not, that’s why they call it a tip.
I don’t believe I had been insulting, however, in light of your apology–which I accept–I, too apologize if I sounded rather more harsh than I’d intended to.
Tipping is a damn touchy subject.
I like to leave a tip. Last time it was, “Customers usually appreciate it when they don’t have to wait an hour for their food.”
I think it would be more assholish to only give a penny as a tip. $0 could look like you forgot or there’s a cultural difference.
If you want to really be a prick, there’s the only “penny under an upturned glass of water” trick.
I’ve done that. It’s truly satisfying to do it to an asshole waiter.
Well played, lobotomy.
Why is the customer supposed to make up for the lack of ethics in the employer OR the bad behavior on the part of the wait staff? I get that it’s a hard job and all, but seriously, why am I expected to reward poor service? This waiter was NOT responsive to the customer and seemed to know it. IF there were cultural issue, surely the burden lies on BOTH of the parties, not just chowder? I’m a wee tired of being told that I need to be culturally sensitive when I’m in my own country, doing customary things. If chowder had been in China, this whole thing would play differently to my mind. There is no reason the waiter couldn’t have explained to him that the forks were being cleaned or whatever. Just saying no and smirking earns you no tip in my book. (but I would also say to either the waiter or the manager that I received poor service).
If courteous, prompt service is delivered, that gets the normal 15%. Anything above that MAY get more. Anything less than that, gets less. Wait staff are not entitled to any of the above. just as a matter of course, IMO. I have not left a tip very rarely in my life, and each time, I was happy to stiff the staff. Assholes are everywhere and some of them wait tables. YMMV.
Well, see… all you folks who want to do away with tipping are going to get the uncaring minimum wage service you should expect.
Anywhoo, I’ve never encountered an Asian restaurant that didn’t serve forks & spoons until a recent restaurant my wife picked out of the local rag as “best Japanese restaurant” and I was really unimpressed. Those cheap balsam chopsticks in a paper wrapper don’t convince me you’re authentic, and that sweaty white guy behind the counter making my “authentic” sushi wraps didn’t do much for me either, especially since everything he made was loose.
I’ve always favored “Don’t go to North Las Vegas unarmed” myself. But times, they are a changin’. 
Never mind.
Sorry for a wasted post.
I don’t want to argue about tipping any more.
That’s pretty specious reasoning. Why can’t restaurants do away with tipping, pay servers a decent wage and raise prices by 15% to compensate? Seems like win-win to me.
Post #13.
Nobody here wants to do away with tipping. *Mandatory *tipping, that’s different. A tip is a reward for good service. If you don’t get good service, you don’t leave a tip. Tipping regardless of the quality of service defeats the whole object of tipping, since the waiter has no incentive to give good service if he/she gets the tip anyway.
But it’s not the customer who’s screwing the server, it’s their employer who’s screwing them. The server should complain to the labor/tax authorities or their own employer; not the customer.