I don’t love the company I work for now – there are several negatives about it. Pay isn’t great, we haven’t had a raise in almost three years, there are multiple frustrations with vendors and our franchisees.
However. The CEO and the president of the company both are very, very big on family time. They are almost always the first ones out of here in the afternoons; at five p.m., you’ll see their backs as they hit the door. They also strongly discourage working on the weekends. They believe that is time you should spend with your family, or with your friends, or just goofing off by yourself. If you have work to do, you’re welcome to come in and do it, but they don’t expect nor encourage it.
It’s a far cry, attitude-wise, from any other job I’ve had, and for that reason I like it.
That used to drive me crazy at my old job, too. And the thing was, I knew that neither my manager nor my co-workers were actually doing work. They were just surfing the net and gossiping. Literally, at any given time, if you went into my manager’s office, our administrative assistant’s cube or our coordinator’s office, all three would either be a) surfing the net, b) drinking in my manager’s office, or c) talking on their cell phones to their friends. But somehow the fact that they were there constituted them working. Then I would get comments about my dedication when I went home after a 10-12 hour work day. Insane.
It’s a shame that so many bosses refuse to accept the fact that a well-rounded employee is a far more productive one. In other words, an employee that has a chance to refuel their brain by doing something other than work in a place outside the office does far better at work than they would if they spent all their time chained to their desks. It was ironic that at my old workplace they used to provide us with a gym subsidy, which is fairly progressive for St. Louis, in the hopes that healthy employees would be better employees. But because of the long hours we were “not required” but expected to work, I rarely got to enjoy that subsidy because I was always in the fucking office. Bastards.
I find it a bit weird, as an employer, when anyone at our place works late, myself. For one thing, it’s totally unnecessary as our industry tends to be a very nine-to-five thing anyway. The odd time that a salaried employee has worked late, it usually did turn out to be a time-management thing.
For example, one guy’s wife was calling him at work incessantly. Our “policy” about personal phone calls is, that we don’t really care as long as the work gets done. But it bugged the shit out of him. He said he counted 18 phone calls from her one day, which apparently caused him to have to work late in order to have his morning stuff ready for the next day. It became a sort of a joke in the office, this guy trying to dodge his wife’s phone calls. He eventually asked for a written reprimand to show her. He weren’t comfortable with that but said he could tell her he’d been verbally reprimanded. It seemed to help. Personally I think she may have had mental health issues, but who knows.
Anyway, I find it very hard to relate to people staying late at the office, even if they’re just surfing/drinking and hanging out. Why the hell wouldn’t they want to drink and hang out at the bar or on their patio or anywhere but work? Weird.
That’s one of the things I didn’t get about my manager and co-workers, either. And when they did go out of the office to drink, it was to this dive across the street. I’ve got nothing against dives - they can be a good, familiar place to go in a pinch, but on a gorgeous spring day, I don’t want to hang out inside a dank, smelly bar huddled over a $2 gin and tonic. Then again, I was considered very unpopular because I didn’t drink that much and enjoyed spending time with my husband, so even if we were out drinking, I liked to be home by 9 or so. Not that I wouldn’t have the occaisional social drink, but most of my manager’s anecdotes started out “At last year’s partner happy hour, I was so drunk that…” My sense of humor (not that it’s that much of a laugh riot) was not appreciated because it usually involved me being sober. Eventually, I felt so alienated because of this and other political issues that I just quit.
I used to work in a plus sized women’s dress shop. The manager used to come in early, like two or three hours early. Or rather, she’d park her car in the lot, and then stroll down to the grocery store and do her grocery shopping for the day (she rarely shopped less than three times a week), because she didn’t like to shop after she got off work, or on her day off. Of course, she’d stash all her perishables in the store minifridge, leaving no room for the worker’s lunches, which is what it was supposed to be used for. She hated it when we brought our lunch, as she loved to order something to be delivered. Of course, she took HER lunch break first, so HER order was hot when she ate it. The companies that delivered in that area were mostly greasy spoons, and most of their items needed to be eaten hot. Ever had a cold, greasy burger and fries? Yuck.
On the days she DIDN’T go grocery shopping, she’d take in magazines to read (we’re talking Weekly World News here, not articles which would affect the business in any way) or watch TV in the back. Or, my favorite, she’d nap. I have NO idea why she came in several hours early just to nap in the store, but she did. I guess it was so that she could tell the owner that she always came into the store two or three hours early. When I became assistant manager, I came in early a couple of times, and she NEVER did business related stuff during those early morning hours. I finally went back to arriving at 9:45, and just shrugged off her remarks. She was hellbent on getting out of the store at 6:05, no matter what was left undone (she didn’t do it the following day, either, which would have mitigated my hatred of her habits). She would total up the day’s receipts starting at 5:15, if the day looked to be slow, and would get the credit card paperwork going. Now, all this would be efficient time management, but she would get pissed off at customers coming in at 5. Since we were supposedly open til 6, 5 is a reasonable time for customers to arrive. She didn’t like it, though, because it would prevent her from doing her day’s closing paperwork before 6, and that meant that she’d have to stay in the store as late as 6:15. Oh, the horror.
She COULD sell, when she chose to. If she was on the floor, instead of smoking in the back room, or taking a nap (during store hours!) or watching TV, or reading her magazines. I used to clock her…she’d spend at least 5 hours a day in the back room. There was NOTHING she could do in the back room that was business related, all of our files were in the front, and we didn’t keep much inventory in the back, just out-of-season stock and some overstock. Our files were up at the front desk, and we received and processed our stock at the front desk, too. I should know, as I did a lot of it. Even during slow times, she could have been examining stock for damage, taking note of what we were low on and asking the owner/buyer for it, taking note of what we had waaaaay too much of and informing the owner of THAT, etc. But that would have meant being out on the floor, and doing something related to the business. She was working at this store because she loved clothes, not because she wanted to work in fashion.
She was a complete and utter bullshit artist. It finally caught up with her after I left (my husband was discharged from the Air Force and we moved). I had warned the owner about this manager, but most of what I had to say could not be verified without someone else willing to stick her neck out and agree with me.
As one of those “no life” cow-orkers, I’d like to give my perspective.
I know that I work too hard, and I know that having a life is a lot more important. Because of a weird confluence of events, I’ve temporarily (for the last six years) lost all faith in people and all of my self-confidence. Now I’m in a rebuilding phase, and the first things to attack were to (a) keep my job and (b) get out of debt. However, it takes a very long time. So long, in fact, that my company reorganized (again) and now I work with a different group of people who did not see my life unravelling; they’ve just seen the rebuilding. So they think that I’m a big dynamo who works all the time, but really, I’m still rebuilding.
In the abstract, I don’t begrudge people their outside lives, but every single day when people go home to their families, it’s completely in my face and I probably throw a few resentful looks here and there. I’m not saying that every taskmaster or overzealous coworker is going through some tragic little internal drama; there doubtless are some real jerks out there. But try to cut us a little slack. Some of us are just trying to keep our heads above water.
One of my co-workers is like this. She always comes in around 6:30 and leaves around 6:30 or later. She has pointed out to me on many occasions that I was picked to replace her in my current job because I’m like her and I’m not a “9-5er” (yes - she used air quotes). The reason I stayed past 5:00 in my last position was because I had work to do. Now, she thinks I’ll be staying until 6 or later even when I don’t have work to do (which is every day).
I have no intention of staying late because I go to the gym after work and they’re only open until 7:00. Now, she constantly reminds me who in the office is a 9-5er (everyone but her) and how they’re not as dedicated as she is and they won’t get promotions or raises but she will.
She is also completely oblivious to the fact that everyone here hates her.
My mom is one of these. For as long as I can remember, she has put in 12-16 hour days, 6 days a week, at each of her jobs. This always follows the same pattern – when she starts the new job, it’s usually 5 days @ 8 - 10 hours, but within a year or two, she’s up to 6 @ 16 and constantly whining about how hard they work her at her job. Eventually (between 6 and 10 years), she’ll get entirely burnt out and recycle herself. Now, either she’s had a string of terrible taskmasters in her life, or she does it to herself. Knowing her martyrist tendencies as I do, I’m voting for the latter – if she didn’t do this, then she wouldn’t be able to come home and try to crucify herself before us.
I’ve made a vow to myself that I will never make it a habit to work more than 8 hours a day, because I’ve seen what it does to people. AFAIC, when I’m done with my day’s work, I’m out. Also, I’m not really very career-oriented. My job is there to pay for my non-job stuff. Advancement at my workplace has never been a goal for me, because as long as I make enough to comfortably support myself, I’m happy.
I routinely work 50+ hour weeks because I have to, but one of my co-workers does it because … well, because she’s a perfectionist workaholic anal retentive basket case, to put it mildly. I remember her phoning me up frantically the day she learned we had three days’ paid holiday over Easter. She is also the driving ( = only) force behind a campaign to give us weekend access to the building, which none of the rest of us wants.
Never again will I believe the rubbish about Canadians being laid-back and easy-going!
I think if cow orkers staying unnecessarily late were making comments to me about leaving at the end of my shift when all of my work was done, I would say something like, “Well, I have family/home/whatever responsibilities that I need to take care of.”
In other words, insinuate that they are being shitheels for neglecting those outside of work responisibilities.
For what it’s worth, I think most people here have worked 70-80 hour weeks. I know I have. I sometimes still do. The whole point is that you shouldn’t have to, particularly if you’re just sticking around as a warm body just to show everyone how late you stay at the office. And if a company has so much work that it requires its employees to regularly work 70-80 hours per week, the company needs to get another employee instead of burning out the ones it does have. It doesn’t take a genius to realize that exhausted, bitter employees aren’t as productive as their well-rested, happy counterparts.
Why would I do something like that when I can work 45 hours a week and earn more than enough money to live a comfortable life? For what purpose would I work 12 hour days and not have any time to be with my family or enjoy the money I work so hard for? You CHOOSE to work those outrageous hours, in an effort to make more money. Bravo. That doesn’t make you a better person than those of us who choose differently.
Oh, and I don’t see anyone complaining that they’re not allowed to leave, just that their coworkers comment inappropriately on their choice to keep normal hours.
For what it’s worth, I think most people here have worked 70-80 hour weeks. I know I have. I sometimes still do. The whole point is that you shouldn’t have to, particularly if you’re just sticking around as a warm body just to show everyone how late you stay at the office. QUOTE]
I agree. The problem is that most of the time (where I’ve worked), people aren’t just sitting around putting in “face time”. They are working until 2:00am because the project has been set up so that there is no way to complete it without working late. Half the time, I’m sitting on my thumbs all day and don’t even get a task to do until after a meeting some PM has held at 5:30. I don’t mind staying late occassionally to complete a deadline, but I don’t like working at a place where projects are managed (or not managed) with the expectation that the team is going to work 80 hours a week.
It’s pretty easy. Just hire a bunch of type-A overachiever types. Place some sort of abstract goal in front of them that is nearly impossible to achieve (ie making partner/MD in 15 years, performance bonuses, etc), plant a lot of BS in their head about how lucky they are to have the “opportunity” to work for your firm and set them loose. They are so conditioned to “achieve” at the expense of everything else in their lives that they will work themselves to death to reach whatever stupid goal you set for them, never stopping to think if is actually worth it.
Personally, I don’t believe there is anything in the business world worth working 80+ hours a week for unless a: lives are at stake, b: fortunes (yours) are at stake or c: you are doing something that requires real-time input.
I do think its funny that a bunch of slackers are posting in the middle of the workday(well US workday), talking about how “losers” stay late to get work done. lmao…well maybe if you would stop screwing around and get to work, others wouldnt have to work late to carry your slack!!!
In any case, YOU make yourself like a slacker, not your co-wokers. Blame them all you want, but if your good, your good, and any manager will know that. Dont be to hard on on people who work long hours, for some work just means everything. It doesnt make them losers, if it makes someone happy and fufilled to work 14 hours a day, when 8 would do, more power to em.
Dob, you might want to go back and, like, actually read the thread.
Freejooky’s complaint (and that of more than one subsequent poster) is that his coworkers and bosses are staying late when there actually isn’t any work to be done. The day’s projects have been completed, and the coworkers are staying on the job to
A) create the illusion of being dedicated hard workers,
B) don’t have any life outside of work or
C) deliberately avoiding their home/family responsibilities, or perhaps just trying to avoid a spouse who makes things uncomfortable at home.
It appears in more than one case that the coworkers in question are staying late to socialize with each other, surf the 'net and generally slacking off, while at the same time trying to make their saner counterparts who do irresponsible things like go home to their families when the day’s work is done feel like complete goof offs.
You get six weeks of vacation? Where the hell do I sign up?!?!?
I’m reminded of the famous (so famous I forgot who said it): “Junior Executives are people who work 60 hours a week so they can someday get promoted to Senior Executives and work 80 hours a week.”
